Joe Mays & J.C. Romero
Posted by Steve L. on July 21st, 2005 · Comments (27)
From The Herald:
Responding to a request by the Minnesota Twins to expand a potential trade, the Red Sox are in discussions to acquire starting pitcher Joe Mays and reliever J.C. Romero for third baseman Bill Mueller and first baseman Kevin Millar, league sources said yesterday.
Mays and Romero? Think the Twins would take Andy Phillips, Tony Womack, and cash (as in dough, not the G.M.) instead? It would be a better fitting deal for Minny, dollar-wise, for sure.
Throw in a Matt DeSalvo type if you need a sweetner to make it happen.
do you think the Red Sox lead all professional sports teams in trade rumors, reports of possible free agent bidding, and wonderfully well-timed press accounts of how “stacked” they are in prospects? is it because there are so many damn sports writers from Boston who have infected the national media? Just asking.
Um… let’s see… Tony Womack and a quadruple A utility guy instead of a dangerous righty bat and a smooth-fielding, former batting champion.
I take my hat off to Theo Epstein. The guy knows what he’s doing. He picks up David Wells. He finds Olerud. The Graffinino trade was a very good move. He’s a solid player and a terrific character guy.
I think he wants Millar out because Millar is openly pissed about splitting time with Olerud.
JC Romero would be a very good addition to that bullpen. He would be a major upgrade from Alan Embree.
Mr. Cowboy Up himself and King of the Idiots? Say It Ain’t So.
A case could be made that Millar, this season, is hitting like a 4-A player, and that Mueller’s 2003 was a fluke year, and, at best he’s an average hitter – probably less than that out of Fenway.
I don’t see how either of these guys help Minny. And, Phillips and Womack could – and, if they don’t, assuming NY throws in money, at least they don’t cost you anything.
I don’t know if this is Theo because there are a bunch of old school baseball lifers like Mike Port and Bill Lajoie with lots of input in the Red Sox organization. And Steve is right, both Millar and Mueller would be useless to Minnesota precisely because they are so well-suited to Fenway: Mueller lashing balls toward the Monster with his looping opposite field swing and Millar who was characterized by John Boles as the “pulling-est” right-handed hitter he’d ever seen (even more than Sheff?).
///A case could be made that Millar, this season, is hitting like a 4-A player, and that Mueller’s 2003 was a fluke year, and, at best he’s an average hitter – probably less than that out of Fenway.///
Millar is horrible in the field and that will only be enhanced in Minnesota. And Steve’s right…both Millar and Mueller have very average to below average #’s away from Fenway. They actually have pretty average #’s AT Fenway.
May be a better deal for Minny dollar-wise, but the BoSox deal is a better deal for them player-wise.
Mueller will be an upgrade @ 3rd, and I don’t know what plans the Twinkies have for Millar; are they unhappy with Morneau?
“I take my hat off to Theo Epstein. The guy knows what he’s doing. He picks up David Wells. He finds Olerud”
Our GM did these things too….lol
Cashman is a fine GM as well. I’m just being fair to Epstein. You guys don’t think Epsetin is a good GM? Come on. The guy is good. It would be painful for me to chronicle all of the relative unknowns–starting with one David Ortiz–that this guy has found to hurt us.
By the way:
Carl Pavano, prize of the free agent class:
4-6 4.69 100.0 IP
on the DL with an inexplicable loss of velocity on his fastball.
David Wells, fat, drunk and stupid–picked up off the scrap heap:
8-5 4.53 104.0 IP
I say this is too many sportswriters with way too much time on their hands. Why would the Twins trade pitching for such obvious Fenway hitters?
I don’t ever want David Wells in a Yankee uniform again, not after what he pulled in the 2003 WS. So the Bosox are welcome to him.
Don, David Wells starts Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS instead of Kevin Brown, do we go to the Series?
Granted, Game 5 of 2003 was an absolute debacle, but the guy won a ton of big games for us.
Let’s see, you’ve got Wells on one side, pulling out of a World Series start after an inning due to a back injury, and on the other side, you’ve got Brown, claiming to be healthy when he’s not to start an ALCS game 7.
Really, I don’t know who to choose. On one hand I admire Brown for trying to pitch through pain, on the other hand I hate him for pitching poorly through pain when you had 2 guys who could conceivably start the game instead. Granted, those options were an also-injured and lying Vazquez and Loiaza, who pitched pretty decent earlier in the series but basically stunk.
JohnnyC, two words… Peter Gammons
David Wells last two starts :
(2-0) 1.93 ERA (14.0 IP) , 9 K, 1 BB
Kevin Brown’s last two starts:
Is it really worth looking up?
Here’s the thing: David Wells has seen the seventh inning or later against the Yankees twice, St.Louis, Baltimore twice, and Toronto giving up less than three runs in each. He had two bad starts, and one of them was coming off the DL. Wells also lost the game VIA Boston’s bullpen twice.
Right now, after watching RJ come out of the game with a sore back tonight, Wells should look great to all Yankee fans. And, to top it off, Wells will make a great bargaining chip for the Sox if they plan to get into the Burnett, Schmidt, Radke, or Wagner talks – not that they need more chips, but here’s a guy pitching his big ass off in big games, and the rest of his salary is predicated on the fact that he actually pitches. Thats right, from his last Yankee start onward, David Wells only gets paid if he actually has a quality start. His entire pay is incentive laced. Wow. Cashman should have such an idea.
So no, Cashman has not done these things.
Here’s the thing with Cashman. If, over the past five years, someone was to take all of the stat pages of all the available free agents, and compile a list of players to sign based on the most recent accomplishments, you get the current Yankees.
Who had knock out years in the NL last year?
Pavano, Womack (to an extent, his year was pretty damn good last year), Johnson, and Wright.
Statistically the best hitter before coming to the Yanks:
Gary Sheffield, A-Rod, Giambi…
See where this is going? With absolutely no scouting, and going with nothing but a sheet of paper listing the best available players, one could form a team much like the Yakees now.
You could ask someone who knew NOTHING about baseball which two pitchers they would like to have based on last years stats (if available), and I guarantee you get RJ and Pavano.
Where are Cashmans Jason Variteks, Billy Meuller, David Ortiz, Melvin Mora, and for christ’s sake Matt Clement?
A GM needs to be able to recognize potential and talent that is not OBVIOUS to everyone, spend money where it’s not expected and get results.
Now thanks to Theo and the other Sox brass, they have angled themselves with the top catching prospect in the minors, two top level guys in the infield in Ramirez and Pedroia (not to mention Youkilis, who is touted as one the best 3B minor options), and great pitching prospects including St.Johns closer from the past two years (who right now throws a nasty change and a 99mph heater, but has Boras as an agent, so who knows!).
Cashman pales in comparison of Theo, and the facts rest on the fields of not only the majors, but also the rest of the system.
FWIW, it’s only my opinion, but it’s hard to look at the state of the two system, the options the Red Sox have right now, the obvious advantage they have to get absolutely anyone on the market right now, and not see the difference.
Not to mention, they’re World Champions, getting ready to make the trades that the Yanks can’t make without losing Cano and Duncan, for their next run at it.
The best FA Steinbrenner and the Yankees could acquire this offseason is one Theo Epstein, but hold onto the wallets, because this guy is going to sign a HUGE deal with Boston.
I’n pretty sure that Wells burned every bridge in NYC with that World Series “start” in 2003. Whether that’s fair, or smart, that’s open for debate. But, it is what it is.
I know it’s easy to make the case that the difference between the Sox and Yanks this year is that they signed Wells and Clement and NY signed Wright and Pavano. But, if I had to guess, Cashman was only involved on the Pavano deal, so, I can’t blame him for anything else.
I know it’s easy to make the case that the difference between the Sox and Yanks this year is that they signed Wells and Clement and NY signed Wright and Pavano. But, if I had to guess, Cashman was only involved on the Pavano deal, so, I can’t blame him for anything else.
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Cashman’s fault or no, NY made a handful of stupid moves this past offseason. Pavano, Wright and Womack were terrible signings (said so before the season started).
With the $$ NY has and throws around, their minor and major league operations should be head and shoulders around everyone else.
Wow! The legend of Theo Epstein is alive and well at WW.
As for the Yanks minor leagues, lack of interest for years by GS. Who for many years was more interested in winning teams in the minors rather than player development. This has, finally, changed. How can anyone complain about Cano and pre-injury Wang in one season?
I find it hard to believe that David Wells is a bargaining chip, rather hilarious in fact. Yes Steve, he burned his bridges here.
Youkilis is 26, so how much of a prospect he is is debateable.
Melky is as good a prospect as Ramirez.
Theo the genius was 3 outs away from a one way ticket back to San Diego last October but some people seem to forget this. Also, Theo had nothing to do whatsoever with most of the “alleged” prospects you can’t name (like what catcher are you talking about? They have a total of 3 prospects in the Baseball America Top 100 and none of them is a catcher.)since he’s only sat in on 3 drafts counting 2005 for the Red Sox. Hanley Ramirez is such a good shortstop prospect that a)they signed Edgar Renteria to a $40 million dollar deal and b) they’re moving him to another position because they don’t think he can hack it at shortstop. Theo is Larry Lucchino’s idea of a frontman for the organization: young, vaguely good-looking, plays bad rock guitar, and quotes Bill James. The perfect public persona for long-suffering Red Sox fans. Meanwhile, lifers like Mike Port and Bill Lajoie do the actual work. Mike Port, in fact, was the man who built the team that Bill Stoneman won a World Series with in 2002 with Anaheim. So, maybe it’s Mike Port you want to lavish your praise on. But Mike’s not a preppie who plays bad rock guitar.
Hanley Ramirez is such a good shortstop prospect that a)they signed Edgar Renteria to a $40 million dollar deal
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Doesn’t mean anything. Mike Lowell was ready for prime time, but the Yanks re-signed Scott Brosius.
His name is Kelly Shoppach, and for what it’s worth he’s batting over .300 and has over 20HR this year in Pawtucket. And, not to mention the fact that Baseball Tonight (and nearly every blog in the world) has him rumored to be the person every team wants if a deal goes down.
Hanley Ramirez is going to fill the second base postion in Boston, which is why he was moved, and no, Melky cannot be compared.
Renteria was quoted as saying that he would gladly move to the 4spot if Hanley was called up because he thought Hanley was better there than him. Now, that just might be one countryman looking out for another, but it might not.
Jesus, JohnnyC you idiot, give some credit where it’s due. Baseball hack. However you want to spin it, and you do spin it a ton here, Boston is in a great place now, and Yankeeland should sit and really consider making a run for Theo because of it. Also, Cashman’s team was three outs away from ending it – so who looks worse in that situation?
Also, the other name is Craig Hansen. A raw, big, hard throwing guy, who right now can out throw the likes of anyone on either of the Sox or Yank staffs. But, if you’re happy with the fact that Leiter is pitching because there are not enough parts to actually get involved in the real talks – be my guest, jackal.
Also, just to add a little more fire to the moron who happens to think Mueller is terrible in the field, here’s Billy Mueller’s stats this year from both aspects:
DEFENSE:
.979 ( 186/190) fld%
: Currently ranks second among all AL third basemen defensively. If you look, that’s a pretty nice list of guys to be ahead of in fielding percentage for a guy who has played almost every game. Also, he only has 4 errors this year, so combine that with the fact that he is more than able to move to second effeciently, and you come to the solution that you have no idea what you are talking about.
On Muellers “lashing balls towards the Monster” :
Bill is a lifetime .290 hitter having done at or better than that mark eight of his first ten years, so calling his .330 year a fluke is hardly correct. The guy has all his power from the left side, and if you knew anything, you’d know almost all his big hits come from that side to RIGHT field, not at the Monster. He’s a great fielder, and a great hitter who almost always comes through in the clutch…just ask Mariano.
As far as Millar goes, I could not agree more. Any trade for him is a good trade for me. He’s a great teammate and clubhouse guy, but the complete lack of hitting is starting to get pretty old to Sox fans. I can put up with his crap when hes pulling ball over the wall, but when that’s not happening, the talk gets old fast. Besides, I’m pretty sure he was only around due to the fact that his Lifetime BA agaist the Yankees is .370
I have to agree with the Sox fan here. By trying to discount what Theo Epstein has done in Boston and their minor league system is petty on JohnnyC’s behalf. I read the article on him in sports weekly that detailed how much involvement the guy did have with the prospects in Boston, and to be honest, it was borderline Steinbrenner-esqe. He almost completely controls the position placement, starting rotations, and scouting programs for the Red Sox. He held a one week hiatus in Boston for all scouts and himself before the draft, so saying that “he only sat in on X number of drafts” is rediculous. The guy knows what he’s doing, and I’ll take him as the Yankee GM everyday (starting with today if possible). The Red Sox system was in shambles when he got there, and now they have good backups to proven starters, great replacements to those backups in the system, and a tendency to hold onto them rather than hope for a quick fix in a mediocre player at the deadline. Smart baseball business if you ask me, and as much as it pains me to watch it go down, I have to tip my hat to the performance of that system over the past three years. Also, being from NJ, I caught a few of the St.Johns games this year, and if Boston does not go get a big bullpen name, it’s because they are bringing up the St.Johns kid – he’s absolutely filthy.
//Wow! The legend of Theo Epstein is alive and well at WW.//
Regarding the legend, FWIW, here’s my two cents – something that I wrote back in December:
It’s easy to guess that the promotion to God-like status for Theo is tied to the fact that he’s the G.M. of the Sox who finally ended the 86 year old Curse of the Bambino.
Recently, I saw a stat on Theo and the 2004 Sox – and, sadly, I cannot remember the exact number. It was something like “60% of the members of the 2004 World Champion Bosox were acquired by Theo Epstein.” (If anyone knows the exact number, please let me know.)
Now, that’s great. Maybe only 9 or 10 guys were not brought in by Theo. But, my point is “Which guys?”
Working off memory – so there’s a good chance that I’m wrong – I would say that “those guys” are Pedro Martinez, Manny Ramirez, Jason Varitek, Derek Lowe, Trot Nixon, Tim Wakefield and, part of Nomar Garciaparra. (And, I’m probably missing someone else.)
Does anyone think that the 2004 Sox would have won the World Series without Pedro, Manny, Tek, Lowe, Nixon, Wakefield and Nomar this year? (Again, in the case of Nomar, for part of the year.) Are not these players the cadre of the 2004 Sox?
Yes, Schilling and Ortiz were huge parts of the team this year too. And, Theo did bring them in. But, you didn’t have to be a genius to get Schilling. (And, FWIW, I believe the Sox wanted Vazquez instead of Schilling and Curt was Plan B.)
Perhaps it’s too early to say “In Theo We Trust”? Let’s see how the team does in 2005 and then judge him. It will be an interesting event to see unfold. The 2005 Sox will be more of Theo’s team than the 2004 Sox.
Maybe Theo should keep the rock band gig on a burner just in case?
Time will tell.
That being said, The above mentioned guys had their shots, but did not get it done without Theo’s additions, not to mention the sack it took to trade Nomar.
FWIW, did Cashman sign Jeter, Cone, Mariano, Bernie, Posada, or Oneal? Arent those the guys that actually “won” anything?
Be serious here Steve, you’d love to have the body of work Theo has put together in Boston, and by saying you would not, youre just fooling yourself.
Give credit where it’s due, as I do.
Most Yankee fans know that Stick Michael was the guy behind the ’96-’00 team. Him and Buck Showalter.
As far as Cash vs. Theo, I believe the race is still on in terms of which one will have a team that they built to win a ring.