Sorry, I meant the elbow armor doesn’t help the crowding the plate situation – not doesn’t it help the user.

As for Manny, they may not like it, but that doesn’t translate to intent.

If the elbow armor didn’t help–even psychologically–the players wouldn’t wear it.

And, although some do not think that Manny was showing anyone up, the Yankees apparently do. According to Peter Gammons (no friend of the Yankees) and others, it is widely known that the Yankees do not like Manny’s antics. Scott Proctor essentially gave a angry “no comment” to the question last night.

The elbow-armor doesn’t help, but the real reason that players can get away with it is because the umpires won’t call a strike a strike. It doesn’t matter that you stuck your elbow in the way. It’s still a strike. Just add it to the “ground rule double” and other rules that the umpires find it more convenient to ignore than enforce.

Manny isn’t showing anybody up. He doesn’t even remember which team he’s playing for. He’s just a goofball. I find it funny that the guys who hit a ton of homeruns watch them and the guys who hit 11 HR in a 18-year career put their head down and run. Gee Barry, were you thinking that last one would look different than the previous 700-some?

And I am happy to eat my words about Jaret Wright never being useful. I don’t know if he’ll sustain it, but right now, he’s giving the team as much of a chance to win ballgames as anybody on the staff.

What is so surprising is that Torre really is an old school baseball guy. And no old school guy would ever let Manny get away with his “celebration” without a response. Could you imagine Billy Martin, Earl Weaver or Whitey Herzog not doing anything about this?

And beyond the payback, Manny and Ortiz are just too comfortable at the plate. These guys have to be brushed back. This is a broader problem in baseball generally. As anyone who has played organized baseball knows, there is something of a “fear factor” for every hitter in the pitcher-hitter faceoff. Nowadays, hitters dive into the plate with little or no consequence, and the league essentially supports this behavior by allowing hitters to wear all sorts of protective gear at the plate. Bud and the owners want offense, so the hitters have been accomodated.

Let’s see Manny do his dance with Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale staring him down off of a 15 inch pitching mound.

Also, I just wanted to take a moment and say “good work Jaret.” Good to see that he’s able to contribute.

Chicken because he would not do it when he knows that 55,000 people are going to let him hear it, for being a jerk.
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I’m not sure if he does it on the road (I wouldn’t be suprised if he did), but Manny’s such a space cadet that I don’t think he cares if people “let him hear it.” He already catches heat in Cleveland & NY.

You may be on to something, goig by memory it seems his antics are driven a lot by the home crowd; the Monster bathroom break, cutting off a throw from the CF’er, and other general loopiness

Payback is a ultimately a tactic like anything else in baseball. It’s gotta be done at the right time. If Torre were a hothead like Piniella, he’d wait for an opportunity when the Yankees are several runs ahead or behind and have whomever’s on the mound plunk Manny. Certainly, some managers would not let it lie. In 11 years, can anyone remember Torre ordering such a payback? It’s out of character for him to do anything about it. For some, this might seem noble.

What I particularly disliked about Manny’s showboating at the plate, both last night and (Steve, you remembered correctly) during the final series last year, is that the homer didn’t give his team the lead or even tie the game. The guy can show off all he wants, but the team’s still losing, and that kind of attitude – standing there watching his handiwork with that smug look on his face – just screams “me first, team later.” His team still had some ways to go after that home run. That’s why I think it’s inappropriate.

Chicken because he would not do it when he knows that 55,000 people are going to let him hear it, for being a jerk. Say what you want about Bonds, but, he slow-dogs-it at home and on the road – because he doesn’t care about the boos. If Manny doesn’t do it on the road (and I’m not sure that he doesn’t) then he’s a chicken in my book.

And, also, BTW, probably the best RHB in baseball over the last 10 years too, FWIW.

IIRC, in NY, Proctor got Manny to K in a big spot to end an in inning and came off the mound pumped. Maybe Manny though this was payback? Still, he’s excessive. Even last year, a few times, he pulled this crap. I think it was in the final series last year. Is it just me, or, does he only do it at Fenway? If so, then he is a chicken.
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Chicken? Why? What’s wrong with putting on a “show” for the home crowd?

If people don’t want batters celebrating, if pitchers don’t want to get shown up, I suggest they make better pitches.