• September 18th @ The Blue Jays

    Posted by on September 18th, 2006 · Comments (15)

    When Rasner loaded the bases in the first today, he was so red in the face that it looked like he was going to have a stroke. Give the man credit – he did not melt – and, he gave a nice effort today on 3 days rest.

    It’s just a shame that the Yankees had to use four pitchers to get the last three outs in a game where they took a 4-run lead into the ninth inning.

    Just to repeat what I said four days ago: How about Darrell Rasner on the post-season roster instead of Dotel?

    If Cashman and Torre do not consider this option, then they’re watching these games with their eyes closed.

    Comments on September 18th @ The Blue Jays

    1. baileywalk
      September 19th, 2006 | 12:20 am

      Rasner was awesome tonight. He got out of the bases-loaded jam, and then hung tough for the rest of the night, giving the team six innings. I love what I see from Rasner.

      No worries about Dotel, Steve. He officially lost his post-season spot tonight. I feel for Dotel. I had really high hopes for him. But he never recovered, and he’s also a slave to Torre’s bizarre usage of him. Here’s what I don’t get: Torre continually did not use him in blowouts to give him stress-free innings, instead using him sporadically and in tight situations (coming into a tied game in the ninth in Anaheim, using him here only if it was a save, etc.). This really doesn’t make any sense to me. Is Torre unaware that he’s coming off an injury and isn’t the old Dotel? I’m not saying Dotel would have been any better otherwise, but I’m confused as to what Torre had in mind.

      Dotel lost his job, but Guiel earned his. I think he gets on the post-season now over Phillips and Wilson. Guiel can play first base, right field, and center field. Plus he’s a lefty. He’s versatile enough to bring along.

      Here I go complaining again (which seems to piss a lot of faithful Torre supporters off), but the Yankees won despite Torre’s normal bungling tonight. It was a semi-gift, really (though Jeter and A-Rod’s home runs were beautiful). Once again Torre used Bernie to pinch-hit left-handed, despite all the evidence in the world he can’t hit lefty anymore, and then put him in centerfield, where he can’t get to anything not hit right at him (that ball that fell in front of him could have been caught). Bernie can’t hit left-handed and can’t play center — is Torre the only one who doesn’t know this? Bernie hit a perfect double-play ball that Hill bobbled. Torre got saved by an error there. If they don’t make that error, we probably lose.

      With a four-run lead, Torre needlessly brings in the struggling Villone, who promptly gives up two hits. Then brings in Dotel — when he should have just brought him in to start the inning. Dotel gives up a monster home run. Joe trots in Myers — and amazingly, even though he saw it fail JUST YESTERDAY, leaves him in to face righties. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

      Anyway, they got the win and the magic number is down to three, but that last inning was ugly, and the bullpen seems to be working more now than ever.

      I thought it was funny that fat-face Michael Kay said (more like pulled out of his ass) that the Yankees expected to get a “horse” when they signed Farnsworth. Even though Torre said before spring training even opened that he didn’t want Farns to work back to back games or more than one inning.

    2. Joel
      September 19th, 2006 | 12:58 am

      I was fine with Villone in the ninth with a 4 run lead. This team needs Villone in the post-season, and this was a good opportunity for him to work things out. I’m sure Joe was looking for a confidence-building outing where Villone could finish off a game.

      That said, the Dotel move mystifies me. I think Joe was probably trying to keep Villone’s confidence up by not letting him have to face Glaus. But Villone is a gamer. At that point, I may have just let Villone stay in and take my chances.

      All of this of course is not an issue if Farnsworth can pitch one inning two nights in a row. They say he has a bad back–fine. But in a short playoff series, your $17 million 8th inning guy might actually have to pitch in consecutive games. In defense of Michael Kay (who can be a pompous ass) I don’t think the Yanks signed Farnworth with the idea that he could not pitch two games in a row.

    3. Don
      September 19th, 2006 | 3:51 am

      Yeah, let’s shoot Torre before the team wins another AL East title. How dare he do it again, 9 straight, 10 of 11. What a lousy manager……….

    4. Don
      September 19th, 2006 | 3:54 am

      Farnsworth is on Cashman. Cashman had to know before coughing up big dough.

    5. Garcia
      September 19th, 2006 | 5:20 am

      I like how some people know that Torre bungled his bullpen usage when it comes to Dotel. Maybe the f’ing guy couldn’t pitch and the Yankees didn’t want to tell anyone. Don’t you think the scouts knew that Dotel wasn’t the same too? Yea I’m sure Gator and Torre are saying, “let’s blow out the arms of Villone, Proctor and Farnsworth instead of using Dotel since he can really help us”. Makes a lot of f’ing sense to me.

      I hate the ungrateful bunch we become as Yankee fans. I hate people that bitch but don’t have a solution, I want names already of people you think Torre should be replaced with. None of this hypothetical shit about what Torre could do better, we always love to focus on what we perceive to be his flaws but we all forget what he does so well. So come on already, I’m sick and tired of it already and I can’t f’en sleep and I wanted to kill Dotel today. Anything short of a solution means we should just be happy with the man who has just happened to “skate by” on 10 AL East championships, 4 WS rings, and 6 ALCS championships.

      I say make a list and jot down all the things Torre does well, and please don’t forget the almighty win % category either (that is how a manager is ultimately measured), then write down all the things he does that you don’t like, then get me a manager that doesn’t lack in the “things Torre does that you don’t like” department and does all the good things Torre does, if not better. That’s our man then, that’s the guy who will guide the Yanks to a record of 162 – 0. We have to get that guy. We get Big Stein that info and he’ll pay the man double what ARod gets but we won’t have anything else to bitch about after that because we have a force bigger than God managing the Yanks.

      The Yanks were still winning despite the fact that 230 RBIs were missing for the better part of the year in the Yankee lineup. I think Torre deserves some credit.

    6. MJ
      September 19th, 2006 | 9:14 am

      Garcia (and Don and Joel), I only speak for myself when I say this but any criticisms I make on Torre’s in-game managing skills do not in any way take away from the fact that he does a good job in the clubhouse and with the press.

      That being said, you need to scroll up and really read Baileywalk’s critique of the job Torre did last night. With a 4 run lead, that would’ve been the time to use Dotel. Instead he uses Dotel in a tight spot with runners on facing a big slugger. Then, using Myers in a role in which he failed less than 24 hours before. Honestly, Garcia, it’s not terribly unfair criticism here – it’s merely pointing out a series of mental mistakes that are repeated time and time again. Did the Yankees win last night? Yes, they did. But did Joe really have much to do with it? No, not really. With a 1-run lead, the Yankees temporarily blew it open on Toronto’s poor defensive plays. And then with a 4-run lead, Torre himself nearly gave it all back.

    7. christopher
      September 19th, 2006 | 9:33 am

      Is it too late to change my MVP vote from Jeter to Mo? The last few games have proven that no player is more valuable than Mariano Rivera. If we don’t get him back at 90% or better, we have no chance in October.

      Regarding Dotel, bringing him in during mop up situations doesn’t help us. It’s too late in the season to give him easy spots where he can build his confidence and work on his pitches. We need to see what he can do in tight spots. I’d rather see him give up a 3 run bomb to Glaus in September than a 3 run bomb to Thomas in October. Unless Dotel turns into Bruney for the next 10 days, he won’t be on the playoff roster.

      I agree that Guiel should beat out Phillips and Wilson for a roster spot. I don’t want to see Phillips or Wilson anywhere near a playoff game.

    8. Garcia
      September 19th, 2006 | 9:58 am

      MJ, maybe that’s what bugs me is that when the Yanks win Torre doesn’t do much to contribute to the win, when they lose it’s all his fault. It doesn’t take a genius to see that’s a position that holds no glory whatsoever. So for me the criticism of Torre’s bullpen usage is an easy one to pick on, but the man has to make many decisions each and every day. There are things that he knows that we’ll never know so we are left to speculate, but the speculation takes a life of its own and that’s what bugs me.

      I think we (Yankee fans) can be an ungrateful bunch at times. We spend so much looking at the negative and don’t see that the positives far outweigh the minutia we pick on. I hear and/or read people saying that Torre is the worse at managing the bullpen, I hear the same thing about Willie, Scioscia, Francona, Ozzie, Leyland, Macha, etc. So we are all right, and the professionals are all wrong. Aren’t we taking too much credit here? Are we really THAT bright? If yes, then I’d like to quit my job as developer and go and manage a baseball team. I’ll just get the input from you all and make decisions that way….it sure seems that we are “never” wrong. If we think Torre is bad with his bullpen usage then go and take a look at Dusty Baker and see if we are happier with Mr. Torre or we would rather have someone like Baker.

      When are we actually happy? I remember Charlie Steiner being interviewed about the Yankees and he said that they never take enough joy in winning. I think many of us have turned into that, we don’t enjoy the winning enough. We are only happy when we have something to bitch about. These men are human beings and they make mistakes, in a game I’m sure there are plenty of mistakes that we don’t see or just dismiss. The most important thing is to minimize those mistakes and be on the positive end of the final score at the end. If your team has a winning % of .607 then there is a lot that has gone right, a lot more has gone right than wrong in the grand scheme of things. I think that part of the game escapes us, the appreciation of winning. It’s not that easy.

    9. MJ
      September 19th, 2006 | 10:10 am

      Garcia, I understand what you’re saying. But for me, it doesn’t have to be about extremes. It’s not about me saying that I want to replace Torre with someone else. To say “would you rather have Dusty Baker” isn’t really the point. The point is that Torre makes mistakes that are easy to fix with just a bit of common sense. And you very rightly point out the same errors made by many other managers. I think that’s part of the beauty of the book “Moneyball” which devotes a lot of time talking about how some of the old-schoolers could use a continuing education class on the game they grew up with. Most of the managers in today’s game are the old-schoolers that only know how to do thing one way.

      Torre’s mistakes are ones that could be fixed with an improvement in logic and someone on his staff that is not afraid to speak up and comes with a more open mind about the traditional usage of bench/bullpen players.

      The main question here is this: Garcia, would YOU use Proctor every single day? Would YOU pitch him when the Yanks have a 5 or 6 run lead against Seattle or Cleveland or would you use a young arm like Beam or Veras to see what they can do? Would YOU use Mike Myers as an all-purpose reliever on back-to-back days when the back of his baseball card tells us all we need to know about his inability to consistently get righties out? I ask because I’m merely pointing out the sketchy logic that Torre uses. If we all recognize that pitching Proctor and Villone too much hurts their effectiveness later in the season when games matter more (say, in October), then if WE get it, why doesn’t Joe?

      I’m not saying I know more about baseball than Joe. But I am saying that I think I can reason a problem out a bit better than he can sometimes…

    10. rbj
      September 19th, 2006 | 10:37 am

      I actually thought it was a good move to bring Dotel in in that situation. The Yankees need to know whether he can pitch in such a situation, I’d rather find out now than in game 4 of the ALDS against the Twins. The same with Myers. He was basically brought in to the Yankees in order to neutralize David Ortiz. That threat is now gone, so are you going to carry a LOOGY in the playoffs, or do you want someone a bit more versatile? Can Myers face 2+ batter in consecutive days, as he may be called on in October. If he’s simply a one and done guy, I think that is too much of a luxury.

    11. baileywalk
      September 19th, 2006 | 10:41 am

      Just for the record: Farnsworth pitched back to back days. This would have been the third day in a row. Something Mr. Kay did not realize.

    12. Joel
      September 19th, 2006 | 11:29 am

      Baileywalk, you are correct. Farnsworth did pitch two days in a row during the Red Sox series. However, the general trend with Farnsworth has been to not pitch him two days in a row. (Or even for more than one inning.) Hopefully, he will be available on consecutive nights in the playoffs.

    13. YankeeMonkey
      September 19th, 2006 | 12:02 pm

      Something I’d been thinking about while watching Mike Myers the past couple of days and the ensuing comments: the Mets have a LOT of lefty hitters. And, IIRC, they’ve been pretty weak against left-handed pitching. Now, granted this is looking waaaaaay ahead, but, should the Yanks and the Mets meet in the WS, wouldn’t it make sense to carry Myers? He’s been brought in to neutralize Ortiz, but it’s not like there aren’t other LH hitters he couldn’t be used against in the playoffs (Mauer, Morneau, Chavez)…

      Also, can the rosters change from ALDS to ALCS to WS? Like, depending on the matchups, could he be left off for the DS but brought back for the LCS?

    14. baileywalk
      September 19th, 2006 | 12:06 pm

      YankeeMonkey, Myers will be on the post-season roster. There’s no question about that. People are wondering if the struggling Dotel and Villone (who’s a lefty) will make it.

    15. Raf
      September 19th, 2006 | 3:29 pm

      I like how some people know that Torre bungled his bullpen usage when it comes to Dotel. Maybe the f’ing guy couldn’t pitch and the Yankees didn’t want to tell anyone. Don’t you think the scouts knew that Dotel wasn’t the same too? Yea I’m sure Gator and Torre are saying, “let’s blow out the arms of Villone, Proctor and Farnsworth instead of using Dotel since he can really help us”. Makes a lot of f’ing sense to me.
      ==========================
      The way they’ve used Dotel doesn’t make sense. You have a huge divisional lead, some games that are already out of reach, may as well let him throw and get back into synch.

      Him getting “right” isn’t that much of a priority with the emergence of Bruney I suppose, but still; it couldn’t hurt to have another power arm coming out of the pen, especially with Farnsworth’s tempermental back.

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