I like how some people know that Torre bungled his bullpen usage when it comes to Dotel. Maybe the f’ing guy couldn’t pitch and the Yankees didn’t want to tell anyone. Don’t you think the scouts knew that Dotel wasn’t the same too? Yea I’m sure Gator and Torre are saying, “let’s blow out the arms of Villone, Proctor and Farnsworth instead of using Dotel since he can really help us”. Makes a lot of f’ing sense to me.
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The way they’ve used Dotel doesn’t make sense. You have a huge divisional lead, some games that are already out of reach, may as well let him throw and get back into synch.

Him getting “right” isn’t that much of a priority with the emergence of Bruney I suppose, but still; it couldn’t hurt to have another power arm coming out of the pen, especially with Farnsworth’s tempermental back.

YankeeMonkey, Myers will be on the post-season roster. There’s no question about that. People are wondering if the struggling Dotel and Villone (who’s a lefty) will make it.

Something I’d been thinking about while watching Mike Myers the past couple of days and the ensuing comments: the Mets have a LOT of lefty hitters. And, IIRC, they’ve been pretty weak against left-handed pitching. Now, granted this is looking waaaaaay ahead, but, should the Yanks and the Mets meet in the WS, wouldn’t it make sense to carry Myers? He’s been brought in to neutralize Ortiz, but it’s not like there aren’t other LH hitters he couldn’t be used against in the playoffs (Mauer, Morneau, Chavez)…

Also, can the rosters change from ALDS to ALCS to WS? Like, depending on the matchups, could he be left off for the DS but brought back for the LCS?

Baileywalk, you are correct. Farnsworth did pitch two days in a row during the Red Sox series. However, the general trend with Farnsworth has been to not pitch him two days in a row. (Or even for more than one inning.) Hopefully, he will be available on consecutive nights in the playoffs.

Just for the record: Farnsworth pitched back to back days. This would have been the third day in a row. Something Mr. Kay did not realize.

I actually thought it was a good move to bring Dotel in in that situation. The Yankees need to know whether he can pitch in such a situation, I’d rather find out now than in game 4 of the ALDS against the Twins. The same with Myers. He was basically brought in to the Yankees in order to neutralize David Ortiz. That threat is now gone, so are you going to carry a LOOGY in the playoffs, or do you want someone a bit more versatile? Can Myers face 2+ batter in consecutive days, as he may be called on in October. If he’s simply a one and done guy, I think that is too much of a luxury.

Garcia, I understand what you’re saying. But for me, it doesn’t have to be about extremes. It’s not about me saying that I want to replace Torre with someone else. To say “would you rather have Dusty Baker” isn’t really the point. The point is that Torre makes mistakes that are easy to fix with just a bit of common sense. And you very rightly point out the same errors made by many other managers. I think that’s part of the beauty of the book “Moneyball” which devotes a lot of time talking about how some of the old-schoolers could use a continuing education class on the game they grew up with. Most of the managers in today’s game are the old-schoolers that only know how to do thing one way.

Torre’s mistakes are ones that could be fixed with an improvement in logic and someone on his staff that is not afraid to speak up and comes with a more open mind about the traditional usage of bench/bullpen players.

The main question here is this: Garcia, would YOU use Proctor every single day? Would YOU pitch him when the Yanks have a 5 or 6 run lead against Seattle or Cleveland or would you use a young arm like Beam or Veras to see what they can do? Would YOU use Mike Myers as an all-purpose reliever on back-to-back days when the back of his baseball card tells us all we need to know about his inability to consistently get righties out? I ask because I’m merely pointing out the sketchy logic that Torre uses. If we all recognize that pitching Proctor and Villone too much hurts their effectiveness later in the season when games matter more (say, in October), then if WE get it, why doesn’t Joe?

I’m not saying I know more about baseball than Joe. But I am saying that I think I can reason a problem out a bit better than he can sometimes…

MJ, maybe that’s what bugs me is that when the Yanks win Torre doesn’t do much to contribute to the win, when they lose it’s all his fault. It doesn’t take a genius to see that’s a position that holds no glory whatsoever. So for me the criticism of Torre’s bullpen usage is an easy one to pick on, but the man has to make many decisions each and every day. There are things that he knows that we’ll never know so we are left to speculate, but the speculation takes a life of its own and that’s what bugs me.

I think we (Yankee fans) can be an ungrateful bunch at times. We spend so much looking at the negative and don’t see that the positives far outweigh the minutia we pick on. I hear and/or read people saying that Torre is the worse at managing the bullpen, I hear the same thing about Willie, Scioscia, Francona, Ozzie, Leyland, Macha, etc. So we are all right, and the professionals are all wrong. Aren’t we taking too much credit here? Are we really THAT bright? If yes, then I’d like to quit my job as developer and go and manage a baseball team. I’ll just get the input from you all and make decisions that way….it sure seems that we are “never” wrong. If we think Torre is bad with his bullpen usage then go and take a look at Dusty Baker and see if we are happier with Mr. Torre or we would rather have someone like Baker.

When are we actually happy? I remember Charlie Steiner being interviewed about the Yankees and he said that they never take enough joy in winning. I think many of us have turned into that, we don’t enjoy the winning enough. We are only happy when we have something to bitch about. These men are human beings and they make mistakes, in a game I’m sure there are plenty of mistakes that we don’t see or just dismiss. The most important thing is to minimize those mistakes and be on the positive end of the final score at the end. If your team has a winning % of .607 then there is a lot that has gone right, a lot more has gone right than wrong in the grand scheme of things. I think that part of the game escapes us, the appreciation of winning. It’s not that easy.

Is it too late to change my MVP vote from Jeter to Mo? The last few games have proven that no player is more valuable than Mariano Rivera. If we don’t get him back at 90% or better, we have no chance in October.

Regarding Dotel, bringing him in during mop up situations doesn’t help us. It’s too late in the season to give him easy spots where he can build his confidence and work on his pitches. We need to see what he can do in tight spots. I’d rather see him give up a 3 run bomb to Glaus in September than a 3 run bomb to Thomas in October. Unless Dotel turns into Bruney for the next 10 days, he won’t be on the playoff roster.

I agree that Guiel should beat out Phillips and Wilson for a roster spot. I don’t want to see Phillips or Wilson anywhere near a playoff game.

Garcia (and Don and Joel), I only speak for myself when I say this but any criticisms I make on Torre’s in-game managing skills do not in any way take away from the fact that he does a good job in the clubhouse and with the press.

That being said, you need to scroll up and really read Baileywalk’s critique of the job Torre did last night. With a 4 run lead, that would’ve been the time to use Dotel. Instead he uses Dotel in a tight spot with runners on facing a big slugger. Then, using Myers in a role in which he failed less than 24 hours before. Honestly, Garcia, it’s not terribly unfair criticism here – it’s merely pointing out a series of mental mistakes that are repeated time and time again. Did the Yankees win last night? Yes, they did. But did Joe really have much to do with it? No, not really. With a 1-run lead, the Yankees temporarily blew it open on Toronto’s poor defensive plays. And then with a 4-run lead, Torre himself nearly gave it all back.