• October 6th @ The Tigers

    Posted by on October 6th, 2006 · Comments (25)

    It’s not over yet, but, Martha Wash is looking for her sheet music.

    Randy Johnson was not a total bust tonight. Some ground-ball hits early hurt. And, those two two-out RBI hits in the 6th killed his night. But, he could have been worse. Nonetheless, even if the Big Unit went eight today and only allowed 2 runs, it would not matter, because…

    Kenny Rogers, the worst post-season pitcher in the history of baseball, held the Yankees to zero runs over 7 2/3 innings pitched. During this time, Rogers made New York batters go 0-17 with runners on base – and 0-8 with runners in scoring position.

    Having Kenny Rogers do this to you in October is like allowing Jessica Simpson to beat you in a game of Jeopardy!

    The only bright-side to this course of events is that it lends towards the line of logic that suggests “Well, if Kenny Rogers can do this tonight, maybe Jaret Wright can do it tomorrow?”

    Actually, if Wright can go a solid 5 tomorrow, Proctor should be good for two and Farnsworth and Rivera can chip in one inning each. But, the Yankees still need to score some runs to force a Game 5 back in New York.

    Lastly, if this does not happen, we will have to start to consider the thought that the Yankees are the Atlanta Braves of this century. That may sound mean…but, when you make the post-season every year for the last 6 years and get zero rings in the process, you probably deserve whatever label people hang on you.

    Comments on October 6th @ The Tigers

    1. Jen
      October 6th, 2006 | 11:46 pm

      I’ll give you “the Atlanta Braves of the decade”, Steve. But the century?

    2. baileywalk
      October 6th, 2006 | 11:46 pm

      Well, I just wrote this about five minutes about in the previous post, but what the Yankees need is Hughes from spring training and a new pitcher (either someone in a trade or Matsuzaka). The pitching isn’t good enough. Johnson is done, Wright is inconsistent, and even when he’s on he’s not totally reliable, and Pavano is injury-prone. They need two pitchers to surround Wang.

      This game was simply a disgrace. Getting beat like this by a good pitcher is one thing — but Kenny Rogers? Forget it. A total humiliation. Now we have to hope we can somehow get it back to Yankee Stadium and Wang.

      Yankees need to get rid of Johnson, Sheffield and A-Rod, and bring in Hughes and another pitcher.

    3. October 6th, 2006 | 11:51 pm

      ~~~I’ll give you “the Atlanta Braves of the decade”, Steve. But the century?~~~

      Well, *this* century is only 6 years old…..

    4. October 6th, 2006 | 11:51 pm

      This was just brutal. Absolutely brutal.

      The worst part was that the entire time I was watching the game, I’m thinking to myself (and after the 4 inning or so, yelling out load); WHO IS THIS GUY and what has he done to the real Kenny Rogers?!?!

      This was not helped by Sterling & Waldman repeating, pretty much every inning, that this was Kenny Rogers and the Yankees will score runs and hit him hard.

      I can’t believe that the Yankees season to this point will come down to a Jaret Wright start…I’d better stock up on the Rolaids, Tums & Pepto.

    5. October 6th, 2006 | 11:52 pm

      The only positive to take from this game is that the offense is definitely due.

      Rogers DID pitch well, but the Yanks have 10 current/former All-Stars. They should still be able to scratch out A run against him. The Yanks have 5 guys hitting over 1.000 ops against Rogers. The team was 0-18 with runners on base! They couldn’t buy a 2-out rbi, while Detroit got them almost at will. True, it may not be the ‘same’ Kenny Rogers as the Yanks last saw in ’04 (as Joe Morgan said about 137 times tonight), but still – to get shutout by him?! He ain’t that good, and the Yankee lineup ain’t that bad.

      The 1-5 hitters went a combined 1-17 with 2 walks (the only hit coming from the Capt. of course). It also seemed like almost every Detroit hit found a hole.

      Poor defense too. Giambi made two bad throws on baserunners (one was safe, the other out), one of which allowed Detroit to score. Jeter misplayed a liner off his glove, resulting in another Detroit run. Cano barely missed a grounder in the hole that allowed Detroit’s first run (a tough play admittedly). And Abreu bobbled a ball in RF that allowed Irod to go from 1st to 3rd (although the replay showed he was clearly out), where he later scored from.

      I’m afraid we’re going to look back at Game 2 as the turning point. We’re down 2-1, and Magglio Ordonez hasn’t even started hitting!

      Maybe having their backs against the wall is what the team needs to get going. Again, the offense IS due.

    6. October 6th, 2006 | 11:53 pm

      ~~~Yankees need to get rid of Johnson, Sheffield and A-Rod~~~

      If the Yankees lose this ALDS, I would add that they all should go: Abreu, Mussina, Johnson, Giambi, A-Rod, Sheff, etc. Get rid of all the mega-stars sans Jeter, Damon and Matsui.

      I’d rather lose with hungry and exciting kids like Melky than watch high-paid losers get bounced from the post-season every year.

    7. October 6th, 2006 | 11:59 pm

      98Yanks – I fear the Tigers saw what I wrote about Giambi’s throwing last year! See:

      http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2005/06/june_20th_vs_th.html

    8. MJ
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:02 am

      Like I said earlier in the day, I just KNEW Kenny Rogers would make the team look bad. I dunno why, but Raf said he felt it too.

      2002-2006 has been one giant tease. Although I don’t want to blame this on Torre and Cashman, at what point do those two have a bit of accountability here? I mean, five years of the same crap time after time.

    9. October 7th, 2006 | 12:09 am

      IF the Yanks lose this series, I think more blame should be heaped on Torre, not Cashman. It’s only this year that BC has had full control of the organization. And I DO like the moves he’s made, e.g. Abreu deal, keeping Melky, Clippard, Hughes & Tabata, having (seemingly) a good draft. It’s my understanding that he didn’t want Sheffield. I dont know about Randy or Arod though.

      Torre is the one who has a massively talented team. Maybe the team needs someone who can fire them up. (This is all bearing in mind IF they lose.)

    10. baileywalk
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:15 am

      If the Yankees lose this ALDS, I would add that they all should go: Abreu, Mussina, Johnson, Giambi, A-Rod, Sheff, etc. Get rid of all the mega-stars sans Jeter, Damon and Matsui.
      —————

      I disagree about Abreu, Mussina and Giambi. Abreu is paid like a megastar, but he’s not diva — and he’s a line-drive doubles hitter who constantly walks. There’s nothing wrong with Bobby (plus he’s a great guy in the clubhouse). I’m a little ambivalent about Giambi, mostly because of his fragility, but I also think he helps more than he hurts. And Mussina is more than just a guy who can go out and win you fifteen games — he’s also going to be the guy who takes Hughes under his wing and helps him through the process of being a highly anticipated rookie coming to the Yankees. Getting rid of Moose would be a big mistake. An even bigger mistake would be thinking of him as anything but a number three or four (he’s a one before the All-Star break, but a three-four after it; dude’s getting old). They need to build a staff around Wang. And I personally think that starts with Hughes.

    11. jonm
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:21 am

      I think that 98Yanks makes a very good point about the Torre-Cashman question. This is a great lineup on paper. It just seems that they look incredibly flat in the past few post-seasons. Torre’s manner is just not lighting a spark anymore.

      One of Torre’s attributes in the past has been his ability to deal with Steinbrenner. That’s not a problem anymore. The fiery Steinbrenner is gone (I would guess that Steinbrenner’s fade is probably due to a stroke or Alzheimers). What the Yankees need is a manager who can function in a corporate setting. That requires a manager who can better motivate his team. If the Yankees lose this series, firing Torre would be entirely justified.

    12. Paul
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:33 am

      This was one of the worst performances I can recall in my adult life.

      Were I the manager this would be tomorrow’s lineup:

      1B Phillips
      2B Cano
      SS Jeter
      3B Cairo
      C Posada
      LF Melky
      CF Damon
      RF Abreu
      DH Matsui

      And don’t anyone tell me Phillips and Cairo can’t hit. You mean like the Yankees the last 2 days with the greatest lineup ever?

      Time to let the people who got the Yankees to the playoffs do the job again.

    13. baileywalk
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:34 am

      Torre will not get fired. Let’s face it. Unless they miss the playoffs, he won’t be let go. It’s his decision. And he seems to want to stay. Unfortunately for Yankee fans.

      Some people think we’re too tough on Torre, but tonight was a perfect example of why I can’t stand him. No-Longer-Pudge was CLEARLY out at third. That non-call was huge for the Yanks. And from the bemused look on Alex’s face, he obviously knew the ump blew it. And all Torre does is sit and scowl. His team looks unmotivated and are getting their asses handed to them by a garbage pitcher. They can’t even move a runner over. And he does nothing. Not a word. Can’t he get these guys going? Can’t he say a word? I know they’re all All-Stars and MVPs and millionaires, etc., but they ARE human. This is, more than anything, why you HAVE managers. Torre does nothing for this team, in my opinion. The “handling of the personalities” line is getting mighty old. Who does he manage nowadays? Sheffield? A-Rod is a basketcase, and the rest of the guys get along and are basically team players. Anyone could manage Damon, Giambi, Jeter, Abreu, Cano and Matsui. That’s the easiest bunch I’ve ever heard of.

    14. Paul
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:38 am

      As for next year’s lineup, Baileywalk has it almost nailed.

      Moose should be signed to a lower short-term deal since he seems great with young pitchers.

      Sign Matsuzaka. No one else. NO Zito. None of those National Leagye “phenoms.”

      Wang
      Matsuzaka
      Karstens
      Rasner
      Johnson
      Mussina

      Those 6 might make 5 whole pitchers. In 2008 Hughes and Clippard are in the mix.

    15. Paul
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:41 am

      Oh yeah, Pavano.

      Is there anyone anywhere who would seriously make plans with him, other than for lunch?

    16. Jen
      October 7th, 2006 | 12:51 am

      //This was not helped by Sterling & Waldman repeating, pretty much every inning, that this was Kenny Rogers and the Yankees will score runs and hit him hard.//

      Dude, Waldman was flat out pissed off that the Yanks weren’t hitting Rogers.

    17. Don
      October 7th, 2006 | 1:17 am

      What more needs be said?

      ++++++++++

      Matsuzaka is hard to figure on since you must first bid on the rights to him and that is done in secret. I don’t want the team throwing a total of $50+ million (bidding rights plus player contract) on a Japanse league pitcher to pitch in the AL.

    18. October 7th, 2006 | 1:41 am

      Paul: No offense, and I’m sure you’re awfully nice guy, but that lineup you just offered me up there is downright idiotic. Anyone who knows anything about baseball would not deign to throw that lineup up on a blog. Gimme a break.

      Great pitching beats great hitting, and you know? As hard as it is to believe, Kenny Rogers was downright great tonight. He was mixing speeds; he was inducing easy outs and weak hacks. He had all of his pitches working, and he was commanding the strike zone. This clearly wasn’t the Kenny Rogers of 1996 or 1999 who had no confidence or control. This is the Kenny Rogers who, like a good wine, has gotten much better, smarter and calmer with age. He’s conquered his inner pyschological demons.

      It happens.

      This Yanks are down 2-1 in a best-of-5 series, but do you really have that little faith in the Yankees? They can win TWO games in a row against the Tigers. They’ve done it twice this season already. This doom and gloom is over the top.

    19. JeremyM
      October 7th, 2006 | 1:54 am

      Abreu had a tough game with everyone else, but I definitely do not see him as the problem right now and he should certainly be back. Love that guy.

      This sucks, but it’s not over yet. But if they do lose, I really don’t see how anyone can justify Torre staying on, and I generally like the guy, bullpen issues aside. But I’m trying to stay confident that the Yanks will not lose!

    20. October 7th, 2006 | 3:51 am

      Steve…

      I must say, one of your quotes in this post inspired me to start something that has been burning up the chat room that I’m in…

      “Having Kenny Rogers do this to you in October is like allowing Jessica Simpson to beat you in a game of Jeopardy!”

      With your quote, I made up an idea to make up analogies to that quote, which actually helps cure the pain of tonight’s lost…

      The thread link that shows our creativity is shown below… thanks for the inspiration! :-P

      http://tinyurl.com/s4dzw

    21. Paul
      October 7th, 2006 | 7:20 am

      Paul: No offense, and I’m sure you’re awfully nice guy, but that lineup you just offered me up there is downright idiotic. Anyone who knows anything about baseball would not deign to throw that lineup up on a blog. Gimme a break.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Golly gee, thanks for being so damned nice about it, Benjamin Kabak. I bow to your superior knowledge and kindness and esteem.

      But before you were so nice to me, I was disturbed by the baseball I saw from the Yankees the last two (2) games.

      The ability to move baserunners appears to have left them. In two games there was but one RBI hit, that of Johnny Damon’s three run homerun.

      Now I don’t know much but when someone is not hitting you give someone else a chance, maybe to shake them up a bit. Stir up any complacency. Stem any defeatism.

      You think this Yankee team is fired up and ready to go after Bonderman? Yeah, I don’t think so either.

      The Yankees have been a terrific team, dealing with adversity all year. Now they seem flat and stunned. So you do not throw out the same lineup and hope they suddenly are inspired. The Yanks have to act rather swiftly rather than hope this straightens out in a week or so.

    22. October 7th, 2006 | 8:52 am

      B(rent) – thanks for the link. Some of those made me LOL.

      All – remember, it’s us/Yanks vs. Tigers now. Let’s not be mean to each other. We’re all sore and in a bad state now – but, it’s better to support each other at this time than to bitch with each other.

    23. rbj
      October 7th, 2006 | 9:21 am

      Jessica Simpson? Ouch.
      Just remember, Len Barker pitched a perfect game, and Don Larsen pitched one in the World Series. I think they still both have to buy a ticket to get in the Hall of Fame.
      Rodgers was on, but I’d like to see the Yankees be more patient at the plate, wear down the starter.

      Oh, and in the off-season, go out and get some pitching for the rotation. Wang and Moose can’t do it alone.

    24. Raf
      October 7th, 2006 | 2:51 pm

      Like I said earlier in the day, I just KNEW Kenny Rogers would make the team look bad. I dunno why, but Raf said he felt it too.
      =======
      He was due. You could make the “karma” argument as well, given that it was pretty much expected that Rogers was going to fall apart on the mound.

      I thought he would do well, but not as well as he did.

    25. Raf
      October 7th, 2006 | 2:53 pm

      If the Yankees lose this ALDS, I would add that they all should go: Abreu, Mussina, Johnson, Giambi, A-Rod, Sheff, etc. Get rid of all the mega-stars sans Jeter, Damon and Matsui.
      ==================
      So, who do you replace them with?

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