Gil Meche & Ted Lilly
Posted by Steve L. on November 3rd, 2006 · Comments (20)
From Jon Heyman -
Gil Meche and Ted Lilly are getting a lot more interest than you’d think. The Yankees are in the mix.
Meche’s name has come up in the past in Yankeeland.
Over the last 4 seasons, both Meche and Lilly have made around the same number of starts.
Over this time, Lilly has pitched like a Jarrod Washburn and Meche has pitched like a Kyle Lohse. Between the two, I would take Lilly – he’s only had one bad year (2005) whereas Meche was bad in two (2004 & 2005).
But, Lilly only helps the Yankees as a back-of-the-rotation guy. He’s not going to fill the need of being a #2 or #3 starter in 2007.
Both of those guys will get somewhere in the neeghborhood of $8-10M per year, and I don’t think there’s any question the Yanks would be better off in the long term by foregoing those 2 and giving Rasner and Karstens a shot.
Let me guess, Steve…you think the Yanks should grab these guys. Oy vey, you and your love-affair with the known commodity of mediocre pitching.
Remember this sad road…. traded Lilly for (yikes) Weaver, then Weaver for (shudder) Kevin Brown. We’d have been much better off, and had more money to spend elsewhere, if we’d have kept Lilly. I’d be okay with Lilly as a 4-5, but all things considered at this point, I’d agree with Mike A., get younger, and put our cash into a number 1, 2, and/or 3.
I like Ted Lilly, but I like him at what he has been paid, not what he will be paid. I too agree with Mike A. — let Karstens, Rasner, or even Clippard try to hold down one of those back of the rotation slots. I mean, come on, it seems that at least one of those guys could be, at least, a slightly below average starter and could be a better than replacement level starter. We don’t need an $8-10 million 5th starter.
Two moves give us this decent rotation:
1 Wang
2 Matsuzaka
3 Mussina
4 Johnson
5 a battle between Pavano, Wright, Rasner, Karstens, and Clippard
People are finally getting it. I hope the Yankees get it too. With the young pitching depth the team has right now (two potential five-starters, Karstens and Rasner, one potential three-four starter in Clippard and one potential ace in Hughes) they do not need guys like Lilly or Meche or Jeff Suppan. They have equal or better guys in their minors — and they don’t cost them anything.
The only pitcher the Yankees should give a contract to is Matsuzaka.
If they feel unwilling to give any of the young guys a shot — which would truly suck — then I would take Lilly out of this threesome. I’m not exactly sure he wants to come back, and he has some sort of battle going on with Posada, but he OWNS the Red Sox like few pitchers do. So there is that to think about.
If it’s Ted Lilly in lieu of Barry Zito, I’d take Lilly (younger, proven AL East track record, “lower” price) over Zito in a heartbeat.
But you guys are right. The last thing the Yanks need right now is a thirty-something #4. Our entire staff (save Wang) consists of number fours. Give the kids a chance.
A bit of an aside, but it looks like Moose and Sheff are Type A FAs, and Villone is a Type B.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/askba/262766.html
So a true first rounder and a supplemental first rounder if Moose leaves huh? Hmmmm…
This will make Steve happy: the “Daily News” says the Mets are probably interested in Mussina if he doesn’t re-sign with the Yanks. I always believed this to be true. And if the Mets DIDN’T try to sign Mike, they’d be nuts. Mussina had a 3.5 ERA this year. He would be moving to the weak NL and in that ridiculously big stadium. Plus those guys haven’t seen his stuff that much and they seem to be more free-swinging. Mussina would probably shave a run off his ERA. Even at 38.
Of course, I would probably vomit repeatedly seeing Moose in a Mets uniform, but if I was the Mets I would pursue him hard.
“Let me guess, Steve…you think the Yanks should grab these guys. Oy vey, you and your love-affair with the known commodity of mediocre pitching.”
Somebody is bitter today!!! Steve is simply stating the facts…No need for this comment.
ynks4life, MJ and Steve have been having a back-and-forth about pitchers (it starter with Steve advocating taking Suppan and letting Moose go, which almost everyone on the site disagreed with).
A) younger, proven AL East track record
B) Steve is simply stating the facts…No need for this comment.
——————————————-
A) In Ted Lilly’s 68 career games vs. the AL East (59 starts): 21-19, 353 IP, 4.46 ERA, 1.41 WHIP. That seems like a pretty average pitcher to me.
B) First, Steve is a big boy and can defend himself. Second, Steve knows I’m ribbing him since this is a comment I’ve left for him on several other threads. Third, I don’t know if you hang out around here very often but if you don’t, then you don’t know that I’m one of the guys around here that DOESN’T pick fights with folks.
I always liked Ted Lilly and still regret sending him off for Weaver and the domino aftermath trades.
The Yanks need a LHP as a starter next season and I do not see Randy Johnson filling that role.
I am hoping the Yankees can talk with Johnson and come to terms with a solution to meet his needs and the teams. Johnson would like to rach 300 wins. He will not accomplish that next year in the AL East. No way will a 5.00+ pitcher at 43 coming back from back surgery and missing perhaps a month of the season or spring training win 30 games.
But it may be possible in the National League. If Johnson were to go back to a decent hitting NL team he has at least a better chance to reach 20 or get a deal to pitch a few games in 2008.
It is not going to happen in the AL, so if Johnson can be convinced of that and moved elsewhere I would pick up Lilly, sign Moose and they would be the veterans on a primarily under 30 rotation.
Geez…too many typos in that last comment….sorry.
I meant Johnson will not reach 20 wins in the AL.
I really hope Mussina comes back, but if I’m him and the money is the same, I’m going to the NL. He might actually get his 20 wins there. I’m hearing the Mets are offering Glavine 2 years at 25 million which really sets the market high for Mussina as well.
I’m with most of y’all here. Bring in the young guys. Rasner & Karstens proved they can pitch in the ML. Wang is our ace. That’s 3 low-priced starters right there.
Since we’d get a 1st rd. pick for Moose, and Glavine’s being offered 2 years, $25 mil, i dont see bringing him back as necessary. I think the $ would be much better spent on Matsuzaka – who’s also 12 years younger than Moose. And considering the drain on payroll already that are RJ, Wright & Pavano, I say take the ‘risk’ on Matsuzaka (if you wanna call it that), then let RJ, Wright, Pavano, KArstens, Rasner fight it out in ST for the rest of the rotation. But hey, if the Yanks CAN get Moose for $10 mil, I’d do it. Or Lilly for cheaper, I’d do. But please no Gil Meche.
to sum up, besides saving $25 mil on Moose (be wary of the contract year performances), and getting a 1st rounder, we could (more wisely) spend that $$$ on DM, then save $$$ by letting the youngins perform.
“I am hoping the Yankees can talk with Johnson and come to terms with a solution to meet his needs and the teams.”
Paul, There’s a contract. Why does Johnson need to come to a solution? What are his needs you think he needs to be met?
If you want Johnson off the team so badly, pay him off in full. And if you think Johnson is unreasonable because he wants the Yankees to live up to their side of the contract blame whoever approved the contract.
98Yanks, Karstens and Rasner have started a total of 9 games in the majors, I don’t think they’ve proved they can pitch (well) in the majors. You also seem to be forgetting the shoulder problems from less than 5 months ago.
I like having Karstens and Rasner as depth and if they need to pitch so be it but I don’t want to rely on both of them as keys to the rotation. If one comes through it’ll be gravy.
MJ,
Notice that I did not say “Proven excellence” regarding Lilly and his performance in the AL East. But I’d argue that a #4 who pitches to a 4.5 ERA against AL East teams is actually pretty acceptable.
Again, I’d prefer the Yanks sign Lilly over a far more expensive Zito, who’d probably post similar numbers over the life of his contract.
Paul, There’s a contract. Why does Johnson need to come to a solution? What are his needs you think he needs to be met?
If you want Johnson off the team so badly, pay him off in full. And if you think Johnson is unreasonable because he wants the Yankees to live up to their side of the contract blame whoever approved the contract.
Posted by: RICH at November 3, 2006 06:25 PM
_____________
Rich, I fumbled my original comment in a mess of typos, but my point was supposed to be that Randy Johnson hopes to reach 300 wins.
He is 20 wins short. No way he will win 20 in the AL East.
I contend that the only chance Johnson has to reach 20 wins this year or over 2 years is in the National League. Sure as anything the Yankees will not extend his contract into 2008 if he falls short in 2007 with 12-14 wins. If even he wins that many.
The reason Johnson would approve a trade, the only reason, would be if it were to benefit him. If he wants to win 300, I think it is his only chance.
Remember this sad road…. traded Lilly for (yikes) Weaver, then Weaver for (shudder) Kevin Brown. We’d have been much better off, and had more money to spend elsewhere, if we’d have kept Lilly.
==============
Yeah, but you know how it goes here. They lost patience with him, and his losing gas in the 5th inning. Funny, considering they’re paying Jaret Wright a lot more $$ to do the same thing (:
But they had the opportunity to get a good, young starter, so they made the trade. I’d do it again.