• Farns For Lieber (& Coste)

    Posted by on March 28th, 2007 · Comments (18)

    Peter Abraham is suggesting this trade.

    The Good Phight suggested Farns For Lieber back on January 26th.

    I’ve been suggesting for almost three months that the Yankees should trade a pen-arm for Lieber. Ten days ago, I suggested that the Yankees should trade a spare pen part for Coste.

    How many more people have to suggest this in order for it to happen?

    Comments on Farns For Lieber (& Coste)

    1. bfriley76
      March 28th, 2007 | 10:40 am

      Considering the value of quality relief pitchers right now, especially ones with closing experience, shouldn’t Farnsworth be worth more than a pitcher who couldn’t crack the starting 5 in Philly? I know Farnsworth has his issues, but wouldn’t you think you could get a better return?

    2. March 28th, 2007 | 11:01 am

      ~~~I know Farnsworth has his issues, but wouldn’t you think you could get a better return?~~~

      A bad back and an unwillingness to pitch more than 1 inning, or to pitch on BTB days, are pretty big issues, no? How much do you expect back for a guy like that?

    3. antone
      March 28th, 2007 | 11:16 am

      I actually think that’s a pretty good return for a setup man, especially if you look around and see some of the deal that are being made. I mean Sheffield is way more valuable then Farnsworth and the Yankees only got prospects for him. I’m not sure they need to make this trade though, I’d rather see them use some of the younger guys for a few months since it’s so early in the season.

    4. March 28th, 2007 | 11:26 am

      If you trade Farnsworth, you’re basically hoping that Vizcaino, Bruney and Britton pan out.

      Lieber wasn’t all that great for the Yanks, he made good playoff starts, and that’s it. He was nothing special during the regular season.

      Coste is a waste, he’s no upgrade over Pratt, who at the very least has a track record of not sucking as much. Coste wasn’t in the minors for 11+ years by accident.

      Backup catchers and bullpen arms are so volatile, all you’ve got to go is wait a week to see who the “next big star” is.

    5. March 28th, 2007 | 11:33 am

      So you want to trade our second best bullpen arm for a BACKUP catcher (who sucks) and a starting pitcher who can’t even crack the vaunted Phillies rotation? I think not.

      Lieber is no better than any of the “replacement” level pitchers the Yanks have. His projections are terrible, and Rasner/Karstens/Hughes/etc. will be better than that.

      While Farnsworth may not have wowed everyone, he was better than you give him credit for last year. This trade would be a debacle for this team.

    6. baileywalk
      March 28th, 2007 | 11:57 am

      No offense, but just because a couple of bloggers suggest something doesn’t mean it should happen.

      Here’s why the Yankees won’t trade for Lieber: because he’s not good.

      When healthy in ’05 with the Phillies Lieber had a 4.20 ERA. Last year, when he was hurt, he had a 4.93 ERA. And now he’s hurt again.

      Lieber had two nice years with the Cubs, but frankly he hasn’t been good since then. He stays around the plate, but he doesn’t strike anyone out. And he’s also 37 years old. He’s falling apart physically.

      Steve, seriously, you need to get off of Lieber’s jock. Your obsession with him is baffling.

      I think Karstens, Rasner, Clippard or even Ohlendrof can do the job Lieber can do — and you don’t have to give up your setup man to get him.

      The whole point of having young pitching depth is NOT giving away a player to get a washed-up, near-40, no-longer-effective starter back in a deal.

    7. March 28th, 2007 | 12:28 pm

      I don’t think the Yankees need an additional starter…they have plenty.

      Even with the current injuries, there is no panic because there are people to take place. Obviously the Yankees would prefer to not have Carl Pavano start the season opener, but really, what is the big deal? It is one game in 162.

      I am all for trading a spare reliever for a back up catcher, but I do not think that the spare reliever should be Farnsworth who could be quite effective this season.

      Also, JB Cox evidently had Tommy John surgery at some point this week…so perhaps we should hang on to those pitchers as well and just stick with what we got until a very clear need presents itself around July.

    8. #15
      March 28th, 2007 | 12:58 pm

      Nah. This is not the deal for us. We are up to our pinstriped eyeballs in 3′s, 4′s, and 5′s (not a bad thing, but we just don’t need another). Use our pitching depth to chase an number 1 or 2, and a future catcher that will be ready to take over the job in a 2 or 3 years.

    9. j
      March 28th, 2007 | 1:01 pm

      I’m sure someone else has said it, but anything we can get from Lieber, we can get from guys we already have in the system.

      Coste would be nice over the dearth of backup catching options we have, but not nice enough to give Posada significant down time, and thus, not worth Farnsworth.

      Besides, if Farnsworth is even a little better than his 2006 performance, there will be suitors if Cashman wants to trade him. While Farnsworth might land you Lieber/Cose before opening day, Farnsworth and the right bargaining chip (or cash) might land us somethng we really need (like a legit young catcher.) There are stupid organizations out there just dying to make mistakes before the trade deadline.

    10. March 28th, 2007 | 1:27 pm

      Lieber’s ERA last year was 4.93 – overall.

      However, Lieber’s ERA last year in parks other than CitizensBank & Coors – overall – was 4.16

      The guy can pitch, he won’t melt in NY, and is a more proven item than Pavano and Igawa. I think the Yankees could find a spot for him.

      And, which young guy on the Yankees is going to be a lock for an ERA of 4.16?

    11. Raf
      March 28th, 2007 | 1:28 pm

      Farns for Lieber & Coste? Pass.

      Anyone want to make a trade with the Pirates, they have more catchers than they know what to do with.

    12. Raf
      March 28th, 2007 | 1:32 pm

      And, which young guy on the Yankees is going to be a lock for an ERA of 4.16?
      ============
      Don’t you mean 4.93?

    13. March 28th, 2007 | 1:48 pm

      Lieber’s ERA last year was 4.93 – overall.

      However, Lieber’s ERA last year in parks other than CitizensBank & Coors – overall – was 4.16
      ====

      So you think he was hurt by the park he was forced to pitch in?

      Don’t you think he was helped by pitching against other NL teams in those parks?

      LIEBER isn’t a lock for an ERA of 4.16 (there is a fair share of hitters parks in the AL…not to mention FAR FAR better hitting teams than in the NL East).

      His ERA with the Yankees was 4.30…and you have him pegged as a lock for 4.16? When he is 3 years older?

      Oh.

    14. March 28th, 2007 | 1:52 pm

      ~~Don’t you mean 4.93?~~

      Only if the Yankees are playing 1/2 their games in CitizensBank this season.

    15. Raf
      March 28th, 2007 | 2:02 pm

      Only if the Yankees are playing 1/2 their games in CitizensBank this season.
      ==========
      I’m still not following; Lieber’s home ERA was 5.18

    16. March 28th, 2007 | 2:07 pm

      ~~~His ERA with the Yankees was 4.30…and you have him pegged as a lock for 4.16? ~~~

      You’re proving my point. The difference between 4.30 and 4.16 is almost nothing.

      Like I said, put Lieber in a neutral park with a good team behind him and he will be a solid pitcher for you.

    17. March 28th, 2007 | 2:21 pm

      ~~~I’m still not following; Lieber’s home ERA was 5.18~~~

      Yes, because his home park was a hitter’s haven. This is why you cannot look at his season ERA and say that he was a bad pitcher. It’s the same thing with looking at Dante Bichette when he was in Coors and calling him a great hitter.

    18. Raf
      March 28th, 2007 | 3:14 pm

      Yes, because his home park was a hitter’s haven. This is why you cannot look at his season ERA and say that he was a bad pitcher. It’s the same thing with looking at Dante Bichette when he was in Coors and calling him a great hitter.
      ================
      The H/R splits with Lieber are a bit closer than the H/R splits were with Bichette.

      Lieber’s splits with the Phils;
      05: 4.38/4.05 (4.20)
      06: 5.18/4.64 (4.93)

      Don’t know what happened between the two years; according to BR, Citizens Bank was more of a “hitter’s haven” in 2005 than it was in 2006. Kinda hard to go on 2 years worth of numbers tho’

      I don’t think Lieber’s a bad pitcher, I think the Yanks could get the same results in house.

      At least with the younger arms, there’s room for improvement. At 36, WYSIWYG with Lieber.

      It’s the “proven veteran” vs. the “untested rookie” argument coming up again.

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