It’s Not Easy Being Green
When Matt DeSalvo starts next Monday for the Yankees, he will be the 6th rookie pitcher to start a game for New York this season:
Kei Igawa
Chase Wright
Phil Hughes
Jeff Karstens
Darrell Rasner
Matt DeSalvo
Imagine that – six green starters used in the team’s first 30 games of the season.
Take it a step further – when Matt DeSalvo starts, and with Rasner going the day before, it will be the 16th time in 30 games that the Yankees used a rookie to start a game. Yes, that’s right, in more than half of the Yankees first thirty games, to date, this season, New York had a rookie start the game for them on the mound.
Was this part of Brian Cashman’s master plan for the pitching staff?
Clearly, the reason for this is that Igawa is considered a rookie – along with the injuries to Wang, Mussina, and Pavano.
Given the recent medical histories of Wang, Mussina and Pavano, should we be shocked that they missed time this season? Over the last two seasons prior to this one, each of them has been on the disabled list at least once. Therefore, seeing them land there again this year is not something that’s never been seen before…again, in recent times.
Clearly, Cashman screwed the pooch with the Igawa signing. And, he miscalculated in counting on Pavano this season – and, to an extent, Mussina and Wang too. Now, some might say that he could have not predicted the injuries to Wang and Mussina. OK, let’s go with that. However, since Mussina and Wang had hamstring issues – which many believe are Marty Miller related – does that not also tie the injuries back to Cashman (who hired Miller)?
At the end of the day, the state of the Yankees sorry starting pitching staff has Brian Cashman’s fingerprints all over it. And, at the end of the season, we just may be saying that the blood of the Yankees 2007 season is all over the hands of Brian Cashman.
If this happens, it will be time to stop all this “Cash Money” nonsensical love that many Yankees fans have for the Yankees current G.M. and realize that Cashman couldn’t build a pitching staff even if his job depended on it.
Sorry Steve, but since Wang and Mussina (and Hughes) went on the DL due to hamstring injuries – something which anyone, healthy or not can get, and it doesn’t depend on whether you’re ‘injury-prone’ or not. Since Wang had shoulder issues and Mussina had, I think, elbow issues, these hamstring injuries have nothing to do with their prior injury history, and you can’t say you should expect it with an overarching generalization of ‘well, they’re injury-prone’.
Josh Beckett and Curt Schilling and Tim Wakefield are injury-prone too. Theo just got real lucky so far this season, as opposed to last season where they all caught up with him.
The fact that Cashman has HAD to start so many rookies – and yet no one is yet tolling the end-of-the-season bell for the Yankees, is testament to how well-prepared he really was. No one but no one can anticipate 4/5 of the starting rotation (and the number 6 and 8 starters) going down before the start of May. I’d like to see what wonder-boy Theo Epstein would have done if he lost Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield and Tavarez. And Lester, too, after he had to be brought up. Safe to say they definitely wouldn’t have 19 wins.
So, I’m willing to give Cashman a break, because the love he gets is certainly NOT nonsensical. He did sign Andy Pettitte, did he not? And signed Mussina to an extremely under-market deal (seriously, a top 10 pitcher in the AL last year only gets 2 years, $12 million per? In this day and age?), and traded away Jaret Wright (look who’s on the DL again) for a living body, and unloaded Randy’s (I don’t care, his last two starts have me convinced he’d be even worse than last year) and Sheff’s (where would he fit into this lineup? We already have a better-fielding right fielder, and a DH to boot) entire contracts and actually got legitimate prospects for them.
Also don’t forget who made the amazing, amazing Abreu deal last year.
I’d wait to see how the season turns out – and how many more hamstring injuries this team has to suffer – before taking it all out on Cashman. What did you want him to do – sign Barry Zito for 8 years? Oh yeah, that’d be GREAT.
No minor-league system is more loaded with pitching than the Yankees. They have pitching at every level right now, including AA and AAA (Clippard, Ohlendorf, Horne, Marquez). Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain are on their way up, and Dellin Betances (a 6’9″ kid with a blazing fastball who is apparently much more of a pitcher than people knew) is the most exciting pitching prospect in baseball. The list of talented pitchers we have in the minors is staggering. Even if just a few of these guys work out — which will be the case — the Yankees will be in good shape.
By devoting so much money to the farm, Cashman has acknowledged you can’t build a pitching staff through free agency.
Over the next few years, we’re going to see some of these kids emerge, and when they do, trust me, you won’t be saying Cashman can’t build a rotation if his job depended on it.
When these guys come of age, the Yankees won’t need people like Igawa, Pavano, Farnsworth or Vizcaino.
So I know you dislike the job Cashman has done — and I admit the Igawa signing seems rather pointless to me — but take a look at the big picture here. His work isn’t just what you see on the big-league field. In addition to fielding a team I personally think should be able to compete, he’s also set them up long term with the farm system.
Yeah, Steve, sign me up with the others. Is this all we can come up with, the Torre whine and the counterpoint Cashman whine. What are you here? Bronx Banter Lite? How ’bout bad luck?
Also, as any baseball theologian worth his pinstriped cossack will tell you, bad luck tends to get moved around in the universe. Ours is actually “good” bad luck in the sense that it is happening now rather than later. As the previous poster pointed out, the SAWKS are not going to get through the season with Schwilling, Beckett, PoppleArm and Wakefield unscathed. Unless you are wearing a Boston cap and prophesying that Beckett is off to 30 wins this year, my crystal ball sees him being gingerly led off the mound at some point later in the year. My advice — your SAWKS cap is too tight, loosen it a bit, get some blood flow in the upper regions there.
The one thing you can say is that building a staff out of free agency has not worked and, if anyone knows that better than any other GM, it is our own beloved Cashman. I fault him for the Igawa signing but every once in a while the Euphoria of the Dimwitted (they who signed Matsuzaka), can be catchy. The rest is pretty reasonable. Yeah, the Moose, Andy and Wang have their known issues and in the course of a marathon can be expected to spend some time resting or on the DL. A far cry from being “injury prone” as was pointed out. Same as Schwilling and Beckett, but far more reliable.
Whoever could have predicted all of the weakpoints or “issues” occuring at the same time. It is amazing that we have 6 to 10 guys we can send up. And you have Brian Cashman to thank for that. Ever check out the SAWKS fall back plans? Free sushi and hand-held paper fans during the month of August…
Moose is about as close to the gold standard as you can get. Give Beckett another 3 years experience and a brain transplant and he might acheive something of what Moose has. Andy is quite simply a quiet Yankee Saint; with Schwilling you get the baseball incarnation of Jimmy Lee Swaggert (“Praise the SAWKS, bejesus! I want you to reach out on your tv screens now and touch my bloody sock…”)
So it is the time of the year again to take deep breathes, to realize that Derek Jeter going oh for six and grounding into the last out with the bases loaded is a sign of pure evil, that the team of light and grace will triumph in the end in a blaze of free will and eternal justice. Here endeth the lesson…
“Clearly, Cashman screwed the pooch with the Igawa signing.”
No, not “clearly”. I am so sick of this Igawa bashing. It’s the typical Yankee fanboy jump-to-conclusions nonsense. Yes, Igawa has not done well so far. But he’s shown promise in some starts, and it was just one game ago that he shut down the Boston Red Sox, but you seem to be willing to dismiss that because of one quote from ****ing David Ortiz.
His ERA is 7.63 in six games. Six games! Has everyone forgotten about variance in baseball? Can’t you people admit the significant possibility that his true performance in the long-run will be better? Have we all thrown statistics out the window because the Yankees are 12-15 in early May? HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY? AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE RULES ANYMORE?!
THIS IS NOT ‘NAM, THERE ARE RULES!
Yes, we could safely assume that Mussina, Pavano, and Wang would all miss some time this season. However, it’s a horrible streak of bad luck when all three are missing time at the same time.
Instead of substituting our 6th starter (Karstens or Hughes, maybe Rasner) when one of them got injured, we had to keep digging deeper in to the minor leagues to find someone to start games.
And this starting rotation looks a lot better with Phil Hughes starting.
And, at the end of the season, we just may be saying that the blood of the Yankees 2007 season is all over the hands of Brian Cashman.
============
As was the 2006 & 2005 seasons. Yanks suffered significant injuries those years too.
EJ, I don’t agree that we could foresee Mussina and Wang missing any sort of significant time.
Wang is young, unflappable, and threw 218 innings for us last year.
Mussina has made at least 24 starts every year since 1992! I mean, c’mon! He’s a Greg Maddux. He’ll never suffer a major arm injury or anything of the like because he doesn’t throw hard.
Kei Igawa, too, was a workhorse in Japan, but everyone in Yankeeland is ready to throw his healthy arm out the window because of his ERA of 7.63 through SIX GAMES. Have you all forgotten about the overwhelming preseason consensus among statistical projections that he should be a average to slightly below average AL starter?
Cashman-bashing over the Pavano contract is so lame. Yes, he made a mistake. HE ADMITTED IT. He will not sign another injury-prone pitcher coming off one good season to another megamillions contract. But he was in no way “relying” on Pavano this year. Have you all forgotten about how many highly rated pitching prospects the Yankees have, largely thanks to BRIAN CASHMAN? Geez.
Also, Andy Pettitte is quietly reviving his career while we all whine about Cashman. Did everyone forget about that signing?
Clearly you CAN build a successful pitching staff through free agency, as evidenced by the 96-03 Yankees. How many rings do the Yanks win without Key, Wetteland, Cone, Clemens, Wells, El Duque, Stanton, and Nelson?
The idea is to move prudently on potential free agent acquisitions without getting seduced by middling talents coming fresh off stellar playoff performances (Pavano, Suppan, et. al). This means considering performance, league, age, and, perhaps most importantly, durability and injury history. After considering all this, there’s still going to be some disappointments (Vasquez, Weaver), but it IS possible.
With that said, there still should be an imperative to develop homegrown pitchers more so than the Yanks have in the recent past, if for no other reason than to fill out the back of the rotation with cheap alternatives to expensive veteran mediocrities.
I don’t think Igawa is really the problem, if everyone was healthy he’d be the 5th starter behind Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, and Pavano. Someone would have replaced him after this start in the rotation either Hughes, Rasner, or Karstens, who all probably would have been healthy. Or maybe they even would have started in the rotation over him in the first place.
I think the whole point of the signing was to have options in case someone did get hurt.
I definitely would have rather seen them sign Ted Lilly over Igawa though, especially since the Red Sox can’t hit Lilly to save their lives.
Lilly went to the Cubs for 4 years $40 million, including the posting fee Igawa was 5 years $46 million.
I agree about the coulda’ woulda’ shoulda’ re: signing Lilly over Igawa. At least you know essentially what you’re going to get with Lilly (solid, unspectacular lefty who endured the brutal AL East), as opposed to Igawa, who, despite decent peripherals in Japan, was an unknown commodity in the U.S.
And I disagree with those who say that, by the fourth year of both of their contracts, Lilly will be virtually worthless. First off, I don’t think Lilly will be virtually worthless in four years, and, second, there’s a fairly strong chance that Igawa isn’t even in the league in four years. Just a hunch.
~~~these hamstring injuries have nothing to do with their prior injury history~~~
That’s fine. But, what about the Marty Miller connection to the hammy out-break? Who hired Miller? Cashman. Or, should we ignore that hire and the impact that it’s had on the team?
~~~His work isn’t just what you see on the big-league field. In addition to fielding a team I personally think should be able to compete, he’s also set them up long term with the farm system.~~~
I think Big Stein is also interested in what his $190 mill is doing at the big league level now. Future plans are great. But, Cashman should be graded more on what’s happening now, at the cost of $190 million. That’s his true report card.
~~~How ’bout bad luck? ~~~
Luck is the residue of design.
If I remember correctly, Steve praised Cashman for getting rid of Randy Johnson and Jaret Wright. They may be old and they may not be great, but they both have a long track record and would be better than most of the rookie starters we have used this year. Though Steve disagreed with the Igawa signing and never pleaded for Chase Wright, he was all for Cashman giving Karstens and Rasner an opportunity, and what a mistake that was.
~~~Yes, Igawa has not done well so far. But he’s shown promise in some starts…~~~
Igawa is in a position where everything should be in his favor…he’s new to the league, the hitters, etc. Yet, he’s getting battered out there. He’s been terrible – check that ERA – the more times he goes around the league, it’s only going to get worse, not better.
~~~Though Steve disagreed with the Igawa signing and never pleaded for Chase Wright, he was all for Cashman giving Karstens and Rasner an opportunity, and what a mistake that was. ~~~
An opportunity as the 5th starter or long-man in the pen, IIRC. And, that’s still a better option than Igawa…assuming that Karstens and Rasner had 100% health.
~~~As was the 2006 & 2005 seasons. Yanks suffered significant injuries those years too.~~~
Raf – what member of the Yankees rotation went down for a month or more in the first half of 2006? You can’t count Pavano…he was never on the team last year, really. Am I missing someone? How is 2006 like 2007?
I’ll agree with 2005…Pavano and Brown went south…each of them, BTW, Cashman acquistions.
~~~Clearly, Cashman screwed the pooch with the Igawa signing.
~~~Though Steve disagreed with the Igawa signing
The first comes from Steve: the second from BronxNYBronxNY
The first is unfair and the second is false. Looking back at the November 2006 archives, it’s clear that Steve was a bigger Igawa supporter than anyone.
~~~Also, Andy Pettitte is quietly reviving his career while we all whine about Cashman. Did everyone forget about that signing?~~~
And, who showed bad bedside manner to Pettitte following 2003…which lead to him leaving the team…and which started the Yankees having holes in their rotation? It was Cashman. If you want to give Brian credit for bringing back Andy, you also have to give him the blame, which he deserves, for letting Pettitte get away in the first place.
~~~Looking back at the November 2006 archives, it’s clear that Steve was a bigger Igawa supporter than anyone.~~~
I was wrong. And, if I was G.M. of the team, and I had endorsed Igawa, I should be blamed for it.
However, I was working off reports. I never saw Igawa pitch. I will say this, if I was G.M. of the team, I don’t sign a guy to a five-year contract unless I see him pitch.
If Cashman was just as stupid as I was to be hopeful on Igawa, just based on media accounts, rather than having seen him pitch, then he deserves to take some heat for liking him…(like I should too.)
Thanks for the correction JonM. I threw that in there because I figured there was nobody in the universe that thought Igawa would succeed. Hey, but if the Yanks win the AL East by 1 game over the Red Sox, than that win by Igawa meant everything.
An injured Unit or Jaret Wright could have been more effective 5th starter than a 100% healthy Karstens or Rasner.
Raf – what member of the Yankees rotation went down for a month or more in the first half of 2006? You can’t count Pavano…he was never on the team last year, really. Am I missing someone? How is 2006 like 2007?
============
Matsui & Sheffield going down last year count as significant injuries. Led to the emergence of Melky & the acquisition of Abreu among others.
You want to rip him a month into 2007, I’m pointing out that the past two years the team had significant injuries, and they turned out just fine.
If watching Kei Igawa, Chase Wright, Phil Hughes,
Jeff Karstens, Darrell Rasner, & Matt DeSalvo means I won’t get Ponson, Redding, May, & Erickson, I am perfectly fine with that.
And, who showed bad bedside manner to Pettitte following 2003…which lead to him leaving the team…
================
Weren’t the Yanks worried about his elbow?
As for rotation holes, after Pettitte, the Yanks added starters in Hernandez, Lieber, Brown & Vazquez.
Watching Kei Igawa, Chase Wright,
Jeff Karstens, Darrell Rasner & Matt DeSalvo is not fine and watching Ponson, Redding, May, & Erickson is not fine either.
Neither is an option suitable to the New York Yankees. Cashman is treating the New York Yankees like they are one of the other 29 teams in baseball, in regards to payroll. There is nothing wrong with acquiring some youth, but it is wrong that Cashman is simply trying to win with a lower payroll. I guess Cashman does not understand that if the Yankees win the World Series while spending $180 million, the reaction would be the same as if we spent $250 million.
//And, who showed bad bedside manner to Pettitte following 2003//
There were some reports that it was Pettitte’s bad bedside manner that lead his wife to insist that he go back home to play in Texas.
There were some reports that it was Pettitte’s bad bedside manner that lead his wife to insist that he go back home to play in Texas.
——
Those “reports” were rumors — rumors never substantiated by anyone. Considering Andy’s been known as a man of great character, they seem like scurrilous rumors to me. And an unfair thing to keep repeating.
~~I was wrong. And, if I was G.M. of the team, and I had endorsed Igawa, I should be blamed for it.
I agree with this. For the first time, I would not see Cashman’s firing as unjustified. That doesn’t mean that I endorse it, though. There is a huge leadership vacuum at the top of the Yankees organization now. “Big Stein” is no more; anyone who believes that he still has his capacities is kidding himself. Even Steve Swindal is gone.
Still, if Cashman is fired (Torre should be fired as well), I would think making Gene Michael interim boss would not be a bad idea.
I guess Cashman does not understand that if the Yankees win the World Series while spending $180 million, the reaction would be the same as if we spent $250 million.
============
They tried both, it hasn’t worked
You blame Cashman for not building an adequate pitching staff but what who was he supposed to sign. He tried hard to get Matsuzaka but no one thought a team was going to bid 40+ million. All the reports were 20′s to maybe low 30′s. Well Cashman bid 30+ million assuming that would be plenty to get him. Its not his fault the Red Sox went nuts.
So if not Matsuzaka maybe Zito? Well that would have been 17 million for 8 years. In addition Zito isnt even pitching that well. Hes in the way weaker league and his ERA is about a half run above average. He is still walking too many though.
So maybe Lilly? Lilly has never started more than 32 games or pitched more than 180 innings. He has averaged about 5.6 innings per start over that career. I thought you didnt want injury prone pitchers coming off good years? Well that was what Lilly was. Last year was the second best season of his career.
There really was little else last year. Cashman did what he could. He tried earnestly to get the best pitcher availabe in Matsuzaka. And then signed one of the top 3 or 4 pitchers availabe in Pettite and went and signed a wild card.
And to be fair Igawa is trying to learn a new league too while working on changing his pitching methods all in the big leagues. He still needs to learn to pitch down in the strike zone. When he does that he will have good games, when he doesnt he will get hit hard.
Cashman has realized that the easiest way to build a team is through the minors and he took a risk this year. He risked that his starters could hold down the fort long enough for the young guys to mature. Injuries screwed him and now we are struggling.
On top of all that with all our injuries, our #1,3,4,6,8 starters have all missed time. We are still only 6 games back of the sox. That is not that bad at all. Our pythagorean W-L is even better. We just need some consistency and we should start rolling. And it helps that we will be facing Texas and Seattle for another week. I wouldnt be suprised if we end next week only 2 or 3 games back of the sox