• July 4th vs. The Twins

    Posted by on July 4th, 2007 · Comments (26)

    Kyle Farnsworth, with this game, has a streak going. In his last 12 appearances, he’s pitched an inning or less each time – and allowed at least one base runner in each appearance. In total, in those 12 games, he’s pitched 10.3 IP and allowed 19 runners to each against him.

    And, how about Brian Bruney? With this game, he’s now walked at least one batter in 15 of his last 22 appearances. It’s not just chance that his initials are “BB.” In total, in those 22 games, he’s pitched 19 IP and walked 18 batters.

    Why are these two pitchers still on the team?

    Mussina pitched well today – albeit just for six. Torre should have never let him go out for the seventh…not with the game being tied and Santana dealing for the Twins. Given his pitch count at that time, the odds of Mussina giving you anything in the 7th were slim. Mr. Green Tea pushed those odds today and lost.

    One more loss between now and the All-break clinches the Yankees not being a .500 team at the All-Star break.

    Comments on July 4th vs. The Twins

    1. RICH
      July 4th, 2007 | 9:49 pm

      Who did you want to start the 7th, you already noted how poorly Farnsworth and Bruney have been pitching?

      By the way, in my opinion you demean yourself when you resort to “Mr. Green Tea”.

    2. Lee Sinins
      July 4th, 2007 | 10:00 pm

      Bruney’s been a productive pitcher this year, with 10 RSAA.

      Farnsworth’s been a league average pitcher, with -1 RSAA.

      Would you prefer pitchers who give up more runs, but just do it by allowing less baserunners?

    3. j
      July 4th, 2007 | 10:08 pm

      One more loss between now and the All-break clinches the Yankees not being a .500 team at the All-Star break.

      Down – er.

    4. j
      July 4th, 2007 | 10:11 pm

      Did you notice anything good about todays game Steve?

    5. Raf
      July 4th, 2007 | 10:52 pm

      Well, he did note that Mussina pitched well today.

      As for who starts the 7th, Bruney, Farns, or Proctor could have gotten the call.

    6. baileywalk
      July 4th, 2007 | 11:24 pm

      You can take Moose out after the leadoff double, but you have to let him start the seventh. He gave up 1 ER at that point, and the run scored on a bloop and a few groundouts. He was cruising.

      This loss isn’t entirely disappointing — because I never thought we had a chance to win. I’m shocked this lineup scored two runs off of Santana. Cairo in the two hole? Phillips, Thompson and Nieves in the same lineup? I’m stunned they managed two hits with the lineup today.

    7. July 4th, 2007 | 11:46 pm

      i was at the stadium today, and there was somethin i noted before moose gave up the homer. Through the first 6 IP, moose was hitting 90-91 with his fastball and 73-74 with his curve (according to the stadium gun), during the 7th he hit 86-87 on his fastball. when you see this sort of drop, you gotta pull him. im sorry, thats how it is now with moose.

      also torre did a piss poor job of managing this game. how do you let nieves hit with 2 outs and the bases loaded?!?! i understand if posada needs the day off, but don’t spit in my face and pinch hit him later in the game in a useless situation!!! ARGH

    8. Garcia
      July 4th, 2007 | 11:47 pm

      ~~~By the way, in my opinion you demean yourself when you resort to “Mr. Green Tea”.~~~

      I agree 100%. And what I find hilarious is how many times people get on Torre for not leaving a pitcher in there long enough.

      Isn’t it easier if someone says right off the bat, “I don’t give this man any credit so I’d rather talk negatively about him than give him any credit”?

      At least I’ll have a frame of reference with your position.

      Maybe I’m in the minority here but I don’t find ripping Cashman and Torre a new A-hole every time doesn’t go right as constructive. That’s life, nothing ever goes perfectly. Unfortunately for the Yankees things are going right for them at a rate of 48.1% but that still doesn’t mean the people on the field are purposely trying to f- stuff up.

      It might time for Torre to go or it might not be, I don’t know, but I know that he has done a helluva job for quite a long time. I am not of the ilk to jump ship because he has one awful regular season for the first time in his Yankee managerial career.

      Now to the game, did anyone expect the Yanks to win this game? It was Mussina against Johan and I kinda knew it wasn’t gonna go well for them.

    9. Garcia
      July 4th, 2007 | 11:53 pm

      BTW, I just read Corey’s comment, his wasn’t up before I wrote mine. Just to clarify, I don’t find saying someone did a piss poor job as a negative.

      There are days I know I do a piss poor job at my work, and when I do then I’ll probably here about it. Maybe not in those words, but it won’t be hard to read between the lines.

    10. July 5th, 2007 | 12:04 am

      just to clarify what i said, i’m not saying i don’t like the man, or that i want to run him out of town. I’m just sayin he missed a no brainer oppurtunity.

    11. brockdc
      July 5th, 2007 | 1:00 am

      “…I know that he has done a helluva job for quite a long time.”

      I disagree.

      So many people seem to be dedicated to the belief that since Joe has four rings and many subsequent playoff appearances, he is therefore a great manager. But those 90′s championship teams were composed of dominant pitching staffs and a talented, balanced roster of players that bascially managed themselves. Chile Davis, Rock Raines, Bernie, O’Neill, Jeter, Tino, Brosius, Girardi, Posada – the nucleus of the dynasty was a who’s who of natural born leaders and self-starters. So, I somewhat agree with the conventional wisdom that says Joe sort of fell into all that success. However, I do think he had the good enough sense to stay out of these guys’ way, along with an uncanny ability to manage all of their hefty egos – no small task. So, for that string of teams, Joe was probably ideal.

      But that doesn’t necessarily make him a great – or even a good manager.

      And, as for the subsequent years, well, let’s just say that he has continued to excel in personnel management, but is often a detriment to his team when the umpire yells “play ball!” – and that is not a recent development.

    12. July 5th, 2007 | 1:08 am

      And, as for the subsequent years, well, let’s just say that he has continued to excel in personnel management, but is often a detriment to his team when the umpire yells “play ball!” – and that is not a recent development.

      —————–

      so your saying he excelled in handling the a-rod situation last year?

    13. Yu Hsing Chen
      July 5th, 2007 | 1:49 am

      I have to agree that this was basically a white flag game from the start and we did fairly well.

      As for Bruney, i ‘m a little mixed, he’s at least still effective, but we have 3 guys like him right now… effective with some ugly periphals (Proctor and Myers being the other two) i’m not sure if they are going to go back to having better periphals (like Proctor did last year) or do well dispite the bad periphals (Myers have consistently done so though)

    14. Joel
      July 5th, 2007 | 8:20 am

      If your backup catcher is a .122 hitter–fine. But he better have a rifle behind the plate. Nieves cost us an important run by not throwing out a guy who a decent-arm catcher gets.

      It is astounding to me that a team with a $200 million payroll and a 35 year-old starter does not have a top-flight backup catcher.

    15. Garcia
      July 5th, 2007 | 8:22 am

      Brockdc, Why is any success that Torre has had attributed to the fact that he really didn’t have to do too much because he had a great team during their championship run? I find that kind of convenient and w/o any actual proof to back up that logic.

      A lot of people make it sound that the 4 championships Torre won between 96 – 00 could have been won by a monkey. There is no way we could prove that to be true, so my inclination is to give him as much as credit as Jeter, Mariano, Bernie, and all the other integral parts of those Yankee teams.

      I never said, and I don’t think I’ve actually heard anyone say or write this either, that those NY teams wouldn’t have won w/o Torre. But the fact remains that they DID win with him at the helm so I have no other choice whatsoever than to give him the credit he’s due.

      Is he a great manager or good manager? You don’t even call him a ‘good manager’, I’m sure all Yankee fans would have had issues with Miller Huggins or Casey Stengal too. We just weren’t around then to dissect their every move, and by all accounts that was hardly done then so we are left with just their mystique.

      Was Torre’s 2003 World Series like Stengal’s 1960 World Series? In game 1 of that series Stengal removed his starting pitcher after 4 batters, what kind of reaction would that get today? Where your manager kills your bullpen in game 1 of the series. I thought he had the chance to start Whitey Ford in Game 1 and he didn’t, did that cost the Yanks that series?

      The point I’m trying to make is that all managers make critical mistakes, there isn’t one dead or alive that didn’t at some point in their career. However, the finality of all their decisions are left on the execution and the players are ultimately responsible for that end of it. If a manager operates in a certain mode all year long or throughout their career, and whatever they continue to do works and then they reach a certain point in time where it no longer works. Does that erase all the good they had done? Does that actually make their managing formula a bad one?

      For as much as we like to think it is, there really isn’t a science to managing. There’s a science behind building a bridge, but not managing a baseball team. It is because of that I give Torre a ton of credit.

      Now, if a kid named Ramirez helps Torre build a bridge then I’m sure we’ll have part of the scientific formula figured out.

      BTW, can’t way say the same for Huggins, Stengal, Houk, Martin, and McCarthy that they had great teams as well? Where do we draw the line of it’s the players or it’s the managers why these teams win? I mean, didn’t they all have great teams? So was it the manager or was it the players?

    16. July 5th, 2007 | 8:35 am

      ~~~By the way, in my opinion you demean yourself when you resort to “Mr. Green Tea”. ~~~

      He drinks it. His last name starts with “T.” And, sometimes he manages pitchers like he’s a “green” rookie. It works for me.

      Demean myself? Really? That’s some high horse Rich.

    17. July 5th, 2007 | 8:41 am

      ~~~Would you prefer pitchers who give up more runs, but just do it by allowing less baserunners?~~~

      Base runners are potential runs. If a pitcher doesn’t allow a guy to reach, he’ll never score. It’s the danger that KF and BB bring. They’re a ticking time-bomb each time out. Sometimes, they just get lucky and the bomb does not go off.

    18. July 5th, 2007 | 8:43 am

      ~~~You can take Moose out after the leadoff double, but you have to let him start the seventh. He gave up 1 ER at that point, and the run scored on a bloop and a few groundouts. He was cruising.~~~

      Pitch count, my friend, pitch count. Moose was at his “tank is empty” mark to start the 7th.

    19. July 5th, 2007 | 8:48 am

      ~~~Did you notice anything good about todays game Steve? ~~~

      J – I have to ask you the same question that I asked dereksTeam on this past Tuesay:

      If I piss you off as much as it seems that I do…and there’s evidence to support this…Why do you keep coming back? Do you like it when someone pisses you off?

    20. Garcia
      July 5th, 2007 | 8:51 am

      ~~~Demean myself? Really? That’s some high horse Rich.~~~

      Steve, I can’t speak for Rich but since I did agree with him then I can tell you what my interpretation was with the “demeaning” part. I feel it cheapens whatever point you are trying to make when you refer to him in a negative connotation. Calling him, Mr. Green Tea, doesn’t make your argument/point stronger. I was reading each line, understanding your points and they were making sense, then I read that and I felt as if it didn’t belong.

      That’s just my 2 pennies, from my perspective.

    21. Nick from Washington Heights
      July 5th, 2007 | 9:52 am

      I admit it. I’m pretty slow. Is the joke behind the Mr. Green Tea handle that Joe is such a poor manager that he seems to be consulting the tea leaves? Or that his name begins with “t” and he seems green as a manager sometimes?

      Because doesn’t he drink green tea because he is a cancer survivor and doctors recommend it to prevent it from coming back? I guess I’m humorless but I don’t get why there’s a jokey nickname as a result of this.

    22. Raf
      July 5th, 2007 | 10:34 am

      “Green Tea” is a nickname. Just like Dave LaPoint was nicknamed “snacks” because he liked to snack. Or Dennis Ray was nicknamed “Oil Can” because he drank beer, or Alfred Manuel Martin was nicknamed Billy, because his grandmother called him “Bello,” so on and so forth.

    23. Nick from Washington Heights
      July 5th, 2007 | 10:45 am

      yeah, but when has Mr. Green Tea ever been used in a positive or affectionate way? Do his players use the nickname for instance? I see the No Maas guys use it all the time and Steve occasionally when he’s being critical of Torre. I guess I don’t understand why it seems to be used only when Torre is being mocked for some bad decision. Maybe I’ve missed the times when it’s intended as an affectionate nickname.

      Back to the original post. I’m with Steve. I really can’t figure out why Farnsworth is still on the team at this point. I think he’s become my least favorite player since Jeff Weaver.

    24. baileywalk
      July 5th, 2007 | 11:38 am

      noMaas actually calls Torre “Four Rings,” which is even funnier, since it’s a play on everyone’s defense of Torre (“but he’s won four championships!”).

      There’s nothing demeaning about that nickname or the one Steve uses — because there’s nothing mean-spirited about it. It’s just an amusing little jab. I like to call him Zucchini Nose, which definitely pushes the boundaries a bit more.

      Steve asked why Bruney and Farns are still on the team, and it’s simple: Farns makes eight mil a year and Bruney is a quality arm who costs nothing. I don’t think Bruney is going anywhere unless he’s an add-in to a bigger trade, but you have to expect Farnsworth will be available in a salary dump. Considering the lineups in the NL, and what lesser pitches do there (not to mention how he dominated in the NL two years ago), you would have to think some team would take Farnsworth on (if all they had to do was pay his salary).

    25. Nick from Washington Heights
      July 5th, 2007 | 12:35 pm

      Yeah, I’m probably sensitive about it because someone close to me is fighting cancer and green tea has become a symbol of hope as cheesy as that might sound. I wasn’t quite sure everyone realized why Torre was a big drinker of the stuff. Anyway, it’s no big deal. I hate to be overly sanctimonious so I’ll apologize.

    26. July 5th, 2007 | 5:57 pm

      No need Nick. And, best wishes for that person you know.

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