• Ian Kennedy Time?

    Posted by on August 23rd, 2007 · Comments (16)

    Ian5.jpg

    The above stats are the results of Ian Kennedy’s first 5 starts in Triple-A this year.

    Should the Yankees call him up in the next week or so – and then have him on the post-season roster?

    Ron Villone’s ERA in August is 7.59. I think I’d rather take my chances with Kennedy (on that roster spot) now.

    Comments on Ian Kennedy Time?

    1. August 23rd, 2007 | 11:19 am

      I don’t know if the Yankees would do it. He’s getting pretty close to his innings limit for this season. He pitched 130 or so last year and he’s already at 140. They’ve already got him on a pitch count and have started giving him extra days of rest.

      I’d DFA Villone and bring up Britton any day of the week though.

    2. August 23rd, 2007 | 11:34 am

      i second that James.

      i wouldn’t bring up IPK. he’s not UTTERLY dominating, and he wont outstuff ML hitters like joba can. he’s more of a finesse guy. i let him refine his game, then call him up in sept. to get a taste of MLB so he can perhaps win a rotation spot next year.

      btw Steve, do you ever get really excited about anything Yankees? it just seems like everything is broken down nice and neat and orderly. do you ever feel like writing ‘Joba was AWESOME last night!’ or ‘Arod CRUSHED that HR!’?

    3. Andrew
      August 23rd, 2007 | 11:40 am

      How is Kennedy NOT utterly dominating? He has better numbers than Joba! He might even have better numbers than ANY pitcher in the minor leagues! How is having a below-2 ERA with a BB/9 of less than three in triple-A not dominant?

      It’s like your K/9 can’t be less than 12, otherwise you’re automatically not good enough. Joba has spoiled you guys.

    4. August 23rd, 2007 | 11:53 am

      ~~~Steve, do you ever get really excited about anything Yankees? ~~~

      It’s been known to happen once in a while:

      http://www.netshrine.com/20031017.html

      [wink]

    5. baileywalk
      August 23rd, 2007 | 12:31 pm

      If Ian got called up, it would be to start. They aren’t going to stick him in the bullpen. The noMaas guys suggested doing this the other day. I just don’t see the Yankees calling him up to replace Mussina.

      I know Mussina got a call into Joe’s office. But exactly what are they going to do with Mussina? Ask him to pitch out of the bullpen? Cut him? There’s no way.

      They should absolutely DFA Villone. But it should be Britton (who can throw multiple innings) who replaces him.

    6. August 23rd, 2007 | 12:53 pm

      Really, it seems to me that if they do call up a spot starter, it would be Steven White. It certainly wouldn’t be Clippard, DeSalvo or Karstens so he’s the only guy left. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if brought up Ross O. after the rosters expand too.

    7. antone
      August 23rd, 2007 | 12:56 pm

      They need someone in the bullpen who can pitch 3-4 innings badly. They have all one inning pitchers except for guys like Villone and Henn who suck. I think Rasner would have been perfect for that role but I don’t think they have any other real options unless they want to put Kennedy or Mussina in the bullpen which I really don’t think would be the best idea.

      But man these pitchers get babied so badly, some guys have it and some guys don’t, that’s all there is to it. Athletes have some of the best trainers in the country, aslong as they stick to a plan there is no reason to think that a young pitcher can’t throw an extra 50-60 innings more then he was supposed to. You get 4 or 5 days rest for god’s sake, it’s not like they are going to trot Kennedy out there for 120 pitches every game like Wood and Prior.

    8. August 23rd, 2007 | 12:57 pm

      ~~~I know Mussina got a call into Joe’s office. But exactly what are they going to do with Mussina?~~~

      Rub him with Pavano Cooties and hope he lands on the DL?

    9. rbj
      August 23rd, 2007 | 1:56 pm

      Maybe they should take Mike out moose hunting this weekend, and “accidentally” get separated.

    10. baileywalk
      August 23rd, 2007 | 4:06 pm

      All the Mussina haters are loving this, aren’t they? If he ends up in the bullpen after his next start, I fully expect a party to break out.

      There are pitchers with lesser stuff than Mussina who don’t get beat up every fifth day. Mussina made an adjustment and started to pitch well. I guess he needs to make another adjustment.

      Everyone is going to have awful starts now and again. Pettitte had one against a light-hitting team like the A’s. Clemens, clearly having not recovered from his last start, got pounded by the White Sox. Moose’s problem is that he put two bad starts back to back.

      In all seriousness, if Mussina goes out against Detroit and bombs, what do they do? Do they stick him in the bullpen? “Force” him to go on the DL? And who replaces him? If it’s Karstens or DeSalvo or even Steve White, I don’t think it’s an improvement (though White is pitching well). Would they let Ian Kennedy loose for the remainder of the season?

      I don’t know. It does open an interesting discussion about the playoff rotation and what Moose does next year (I wouldn’t be shocked if he retired).

      “But man these pitchers get babied so badly, some guys have it and some guys don’t, that’s all there is to it. Athletes have some of the best trainers in the country, aslong as they stick to a plan there is no reason to think that a young pitcher can’t throw an extra 50-60 innings more then he was supposed to. You get 4 or 5 days rest for god’s sake, it’s not like they are going to trot Kennedy out there for 120 pitches every game like Wood and Prior.”

      This is totally untrue. It doesn’t matter how good trainers are. Studies have shown that if you make too big of a jump in innings pitched the pitcher is more likely to come up with an injury. It’s not the 200 innings that hurts them; it’s jumping from 100 or less to 200. A young pitcher shouldn’t add more than 30 innings to his arm each year. Pitching is already an unnatural and brutal motion for the arm. Add to that more strain than it ever experienced and it’s not hard to understand why a jump in innings leads to injuries.

    11. antone
      August 23rd, 2007 | 5:34 pm

      Bailey – everyone’s arm is different, yes it may increase the chances but it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Everyone’s body matures at different ages in their life, some people hit puberty earlier than others so why can’t some 21 – 22 year olds be more advanced than others when it comes to being able withstand alot of innings pitched? and it’s not even really innings pitched, it’s the number of pitches thrown. If they are only allowed 90 to 100 pitches each start and then given the proper days rest and they have no stress or pain in their arm then they should be fine. I guarantee that alot of these pitchers who got hurt probably hard arm problems and never said anything.

      Steve, is there anyway to find out how many pitchers have started at a young age and had at least 5 consecutive years of 150 inning or more? There has to be a pretty decent sized list. Dontrelle Willis has to be close…

      By the way Bailey..pitchers get hurt all the time at all ages…its unpredictable…and some guys are always hurt…Pavano, Halladay, Schilling, etc etc etc…I think each case is different.

    12. antone
      August 23rd, 2007 | 5:57 pm

      Here are some pitchers who were between age 19 -23 in their first season and have pitched 150 or more innings their first 5 seasons:

      Sabathia
      Willis
      Gooden
      Petitte
      Saberhagen
      Sutton
      Seaver

      and there are a bunch of other who did it after their first season and were still younger than 23:

      Smoltz
      Clemens
      Mussina
      Carlton
      Jenkins
      Buehrle
      Glavine
      Valenzuela
      Stieb

      I really think the innings thing is overated, it all depends on the pitcher.

    13. Ed_The_3rd
      August 23rd, 2007 | 8:53 pm

      Sutton, Seaver, Carlton, and Jenkins all came up during an era in which we knew much less about protecting young arms and usage patterns were very different.

      Gooden is the test case for not overworking a young starter…Doc could’ve never heard the word “blow” and his arm still would have fallen off. Saberhagen/Valenzuela/Stieb all had big IP jumps going into the majors and all had their careers end early due to injuries that could be called “workload related.”

      Everybody else saw gradual innings increases thru their MiL/first couple ML seasons…this list pretty much reinforces the fact that pitchers’ workloads should increase gradually as they move thru the minors and into the majors.

    14. antone
      August 24th, 2007 | 9:09 am

      All the guys I named are all in the top 200 or so all time in innings pitched(2500+ innings)and have over 150 wins except for the guys pitching now (Sabathia, Willis, etc.), so if Ian Kennedy even sniffs the careers of Stieb, Gooden, or Saberhagan then he has had a very productive career.

      And this comment right here just proves my point:

      “Sutton, Seaver, Carlton, and Jenkins all came up during an era in which we knew much less about protecting young arms and usage patterns were very different.”

      Don Sutton 7th all time in innings pitched 5,282
      Steve Carlton 9th all time in inn. pitched 5,217
      Tom Seaver 17th all time in innings pitched 4,782
      Fergie Jenkins 27th all time in inn. pitched 4,500

      So why could these guys pitch so many innings at such a young age and go on to be among the all time leaders in innings pitched with inferior medical treatment to today but guys can’t do it now??? I think it all depends on the pitcher because it clearly didn’t affect any of these guys.

      So basically it’s a great thing we protected those young arms of Sutton, Seaver, Carlton, and Jenkins or else they would have never won 300 games and gone on to be among the all time leaders in innings pitched…yeah that makes sense, lets not pitch Ian Kennedy because there is 100% certainty he will blow out his arm just like Seaver. HA!

    15. Raf
      August 24th, 2007 | 10:54 am

      So why could these guys pitch so many innings at such a young age and go on to be among the all time leaders in innings pitched with inferior medical treatment to today but guys can’t do it now??? I think it all depends on the pitcher because it clearly didn’t affect any of these guys.
      ===============
      IMO, “catastrophic pitching injuries” seem to be a fairly recent phenomenon, and with the $$ thrown at pitchers nowadays, it should come as no surprise that owners want to protect their investments.

      Sutton started his MiL career in 1965 and threw 249 innings at two levels. When he was called up to the Dodgers, he pitched less innings

      Carlton pitched 178 innings his first pro year. Not sure what happened in 1965, but he only threw 25 innings. 1966, 180 innings. And his innings steadily progressed, peaking with 346.1 in 1972.

      Seaver started with 184 innings in 1966. He started for the Mets a year later. He would throw 200+ innings 13 years in a row.

      Fergie started in 1962 tossing 78 innings. He threw 150 the next year, then 196 the following year. 134 the year after that (MLB & MiLB). His first year he threw 184 innings.

      Kinda makes me wonder about usage patterns of players today, their strength and conditioning, and what exactly did these guys do different then than players are doing nowadays.

    16. antone
      August 24th, 2007 | 12:15 pm

      Yeah, I agree with Raf(may be the first time ever). I think the whole point is what are these guys doing different then what they used to do back in the day. Maybe the pitchers today do too much lifting? Or maybe alot of the injuries were ‘roid related? It just seems very odd.

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