• September 13th @ The Blue Jays

    Posted by on September 13th, 2007 · Comments (19)

    This started out as a beautiful, crisp, game. The contest was less than two hours old and it was already into the eighth inning. Ian Kennedy was dazzling for the Yankees tonight…and, then, well, it’s just an awful way to lose a game like this one…just awful.

    It’s not going to make for a happy flight to Beantown, that’s for sure.

    I know that Joba had the night off. And, I know that Farnsworth had a stiff neck. And, of course, you don’t bring in your closer when it’s a tie game on the road. But, were Chris Britton and Jose Veras the only options for the bottom of the ninth in a game like this one?

    Well, when you have already used Vizcaíno, and Edwar Ramirez has been used a lot lately, and that leaves Henn, Bruney, Villone, and a bunch of Triple-A pitchers….maybe that’s all you can do?

    Shame. It seems so wasteful to lose a game like this one from Kennedy and Vizcaíno.

    [insert your favorite curse word here]

    Comments on September 13th @ The Blue Jays

    1. Lee Sinins
      September 13th, 2007 | 10:35 pm

      This was a game the Yankees deserved to lose.

      Britton and Veras were not the only options. Rivera should have been in the game.

      When the game is on the line and your best reliever is sitting in the bullpen because he can’t get a “save”, you deserve to lose.

    2. September 14th, 2007 | 3:03 am

      Glad to see that I’m not the only one who believes that, Lee, but I’ll ask this to you, Steve, and whoever reads this:

      Are the modern-day managers seemingly tied down to the save statistic?

    3. Lee Sinins
      September 14th, 2007 | 7:56 am

      They are absolutely tied to it.

      In order to believe that Joe Torre manages his bullpen to win games and not by the save stat, one would have to believe that the Yankees have never played even 1 single game in which the game was on the line in the 7th inning since 1997.

    4. Lee Sinins
      September 14th, 2007 | 8:02 am

      I mean since 1996.

      Actually, since, even in 1996, Torre used Rivera not because he was the best reliever on the team and should be in the game when it was on the line, but because he wasn’t the save guy, Torre has never managed a single game for the Yankees in which he managed his bullpen with winning the game being his primary objective.

    5. Andrew
      September 14th, 2007 | 8:58 am

      Why should Rivera have been in the game? He pitched 1.1 innings the day before, the bottom of the lineup was coming to bat, and he would have absolutely been unavailable for the opener in Fenway. Maybe he should have gone to Viz for another inning. But maybe, because Joba and Kyle were unavailable, he was hamstrung. It’s not a damning of the Yankees bullpen, what other bullpen in the major leagues has a quality 5th guy?

    6. rbj
      September 14th, 2007 | 9:27 am

      Didn’t see the game or read anything more than the short summary of it, but when your offense scores 1 run, can you really be expected to win many games?

      I would have kept Mo out of last night’s game — the Boston series is more important.

    7. bfriley76
      September 14th, 2007 | 9:36 am

      As long as we are all playing manager, why not walk Thomas and set up the double play. Maybe even bring in Ohlendorf. Tough loss, but silver lining, the kid pitched great. He and/or Hughes are probably headed to the bullpen for the playoffs, which is more than likely a plus for us.

    8. The Scout
      September 14th, 2007 | 9:42 am

      Britton was a reasonable choice from among poor options, due to injury and heavy use. Many bloggers were screaming about the team’s failure to call Britton up earlier this year. Well, we have him now.

      BTW, if Rivera pitches the 9th and the score remains tied, who would you have pitch the 10th?

    9. baileywalk
      September 14th, 2007 | 10:11 am

      I don’t have a problem with Britton being in the game. He has been a pretty decent pitcher while in the bigs. And with Joba, Farnsworth and Edwar out, and Vizcaino already used, there weren’t any “automatic” options.

      So here’s a different angle to it: what about leaving Kennedy in for the eighth inning? His pitch count wasn’t outrageous. He had been dominating. It was inevitable that he walked the leadoff man. You just knew it was going to happen. The kid knew he was going batter to batter.

      You could say that Torre didn’t want the kid to lose the game and ruin what was a fabulous performance, but sometimes the guy who started the game is the best pitcher available. If Kennedy can get through the eighth, maybe then ‘Caino pitches the ninth and it’s a different gallgame.

      Just a thought.

    10. Lee Sinins
      September 14th, 2007 | 10:53 am

      9th inning–the Blue Jays had 3, 4, 5 coming up.

      That is not the bottom of the lineup.

    11. Andrew
      September 14th, 2007 | 12:58 pm

      I was talking about the Yankees’ bottom of the lineup. There was not a great chance they would go ahead, and Rivera was not going to pitch two innings.

      If they had gone into the tenth, still not ahead, Torre would be forced to use someone else. The Yankees would still have lost and Rivera would be unavailable tonight.

    12. JohnnyC
      September 14th, 2007 | 1:05 pm

      Why would Mo not be available tonight? Are there Mo Rules in addition to the Joba Rules? Torre has never used Mo 3 games in a row? And, as far as the Yankees’ bottom of the line-up coming up, didn’t Torre have Posada and Jason Giambi available to pinch-hit? Among others?

    13. JohnnyC
      September 14th, 2007 | 1:08 pm

      And how is the Boston series “more important”? We’re 5 1/2 games back of Boston and Detroit’s 3 1/2 games behind us, with only 17 games left to play. I thought every game counted the same in the standings.

    14. Don
      September 14th, 2007 | 2:22 pm

      Mariano had no business in that game, a tie game on the road. And the same complaints [complainers] would be heard if the game went to the bottom of the 10th still tied, why did Torre take Mariano out, couldn’t he go two innings.

    15. Lee Sinins
      September 14th, 2007 | 3:20 pm

      If the game was still tied after Rivera pitched the 10th, you take him out and bring in someone else.

      The Yankees have lost more games in the past 11 years because Rivera’s ass was sitting on the bench when the game was on the line than even the worst show up in the 9th inning pitcher would cost the team.

    16. Don
      September 14th, 2007 | 5:44 pm

      Mostly, that is nonsense. This is a team that has won four (4) WS and been in post season every year under Torre. To say they have lost x-number-of-games for not bringing Mariano into a tie game on the road is silly.

      It also ignores the games that Rivera saved that he would not have been available to pitch in had he been brought into tie games on the road. Especially since you seem so comfortable in using him for two innings in a tie game on the road.

    17. Lee Sinins
      September 14th, 2007 | 5:53 pm

      No, the players were the ones who small sample size shitted 4 times. Any old stupid manager could have done what Torre has done. How do we know that? It’s simple. Torre has always any old stupid manager.

      Show me exactly where I said to use him for 2 innings. I never said that. I said use him in the 10th, when the heart of the opponents lineup, featuring an all time great in Frank Thomas, was at the plate. I never said use him in the 11th.

      And the Yankees lose games all of the time by not having Rivera on the mound when the game was on the line. The last time it happened was September 13, 2007.

      Any Yankees fan who (1) couldn’t figure out that the game was on the line in the 9th inning last night and (2) really doesn’t think Rivera should be in the game when it is on the line deserves to have seen them lose.

      And, if the same situation happens tonight, the Yankees deserve to lose again.

    18. Don
      September 15th, 2007 | 2:00 am

      LMAO. Lee, you’re a certified Torre hater. Congratulations.

      However, tonight’s game proved my point. Had the infirm idea of using Mariano on the road, in a tie game, been granted, and he pitched two
      innings, it is unlikely the Yankees win this game. So get over it.

    19. Lee Sinins
      September 15th, 2007 | 8:06 am


      How many times do I have to say this–I never said pitch Rivera for 2 innings. I said pitch him in the 9th. I never said pitch him in the 10th.

      And Rivera should not have pitched in the 9th yesterday. He should have been in the game in the 8th, to face Ortiz and the rest of the Red Sox lineup. Then, you call in Vizcaino to pitch the 9th.

      To do it any other way means you are putting the save statistic ahead of the team’s chances of winning the game.

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