Time For Yanks To Get A New Architect
Since their collapse in the 2004 ALCS, the Yankees have now been bounced in three straight ALDS match-ups: 2005, 2006 & 2007.
Including 2004, with their loss now in Game 4 of the 2007 ALDS, the Yankees have lost four of their last six October “elimination games.”
Going back to Game Four of the 2004 ALCS, the Yankees have now lost 13 of their last 17 post-season games.
Some like to call this all just bad luck, or the randomness of the post-season, or small sample size cherry picking – and say these results mean nothing.
Me? When I look at the last four Yankees post-seasons, I see a total lack of competitive showing by New York.
17 post-season games played. 13 post-season games lost.
How and why does this happen? It’s actually not very complicated.
In the post-season, you face good teams with good pitching. The best way to beat good teams with good pitching is to match their pitching with good pitching and have your hitters take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to them – when they happen, as there are not many of them, without allowing these opportunities to go wasted.
What’s been the issue here for New York?
During the regular-season, the 2004-2007 Yankees used a different approach towards winning – using an offense that pounds bad pitching to offset a lack of starting pitching and a shallow bullpen.
The Yankees of the last four seasons have been a team built for leveraging the weakness of the underbelly in their league to pile up enough wins to reach October.
However, the Yankees of the last four seasons have been a team built without what it takes to win in the post-season. With the lack of a strong starting rotation and a thin bullpen, they’ve been unable to offset all the good pitching that they’ve faced in October. And, their hitters have not been able to treat the good pitching that they face in October like they’ve treated those underbelly pitchers that they feast on during the regular-season.
This is how and why the Yankees have failed so badly in their last four post-seasons – it has to do with the way the team has been constructed.
After four straight years now of post-season failure – again, 17 post-season games played, 13 post-season games lost – it’s time to get a new architect. The one in charge now has built a house of cards that comes falling down every October.
Yes, I am aware of the fact that pitching prospects like Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain are in the picture now – and that may be part of the answer in getting the Yankees where they need to be in order to be able to win again in October.
However, it was Damon Oppenheimer who was the person behind selecting pitchers like Chamberlain and Kennedy. The guy in charge of building the team now is the guy who signed pitchers like Jose Contreras, Carl Pavano, and Kei Igawa. And, he’s traded for pitchers like Jeff Weaver and Javier Vazquez – as well as Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, both well past their prime.
And, the architect in charge now is the one who has built an offense that shrinks faster every October than George Costanza’s tallywacker after a dip in a cold pool at the Hamptons.
At the end of this past May, George Steinbrenner said of Brian Cashman: “He’s on a big hook. He wanted sole authority. He got it. Now he’s got to deliver.”
Guess what? Cashman delivered this year – but, it’s been the same thing as the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that.
17 post-season games played. 13 post-season games lost.
It’s not working. And, it’s time for something new. It’s time for Cashman to go.
If they found a decent replacement, I wouldn’t mind it if Cashman was gone this year. I’d prefer a new manager more though.
Still, however, a fair assessment of the last four years requires going back and seeing which pitchers were available through trade or free agency (very, very slim pickings). I once did a post here about that and you didn’t respond.
A team has to develop its own pitching and Cashman was handicapped by what had happened with the Yankee drafts from 1999-2003.
Could not disagree more.
The next GM will be brought in under the notion that they have to win now for George, because the Boss fears the end before he can win another title.
Cashman has learned from his mistakes, and has stopped buying and treading for mediocre pitchers. (Eric Gagne, anyone?) A “next regime” will have no memory of this.
The main reason Cashman doesn’t have good young franchise hitters up the middle, (which, along with Mariano and the strong set-up relief, was alaways their true advantage over their main opponents) as the dynasty teams had in Posada, Jeter, Bernie, is that the farm system, never under Cashman’s control, was, until recently producing bust draft after bust draft.
In the same way, Soriano, Johnson, and Juan Rivera were the last truly valuable trading chips.
Combine trying to squeeze out a last title with the ability of teams to hold on to their prime pitching talent due to revenue sharing, and the Yanks got outbid for Schilling, and did not have the pieces necessary for Beckett or Hudson.
Halladay never got on the market, neither has Oswalt, nor Santana (yet). Cashman thought Vaquez was one of them, not an unreasonable assumption at the time. It didn’t work here, but Contreras and Vazquez worked out pretty well for the White Sox, as Jeff Weaver did for the Cards.
“Guess what? Cashman delivered this year – but, it’s been the same thing as the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that.”
No it’s not: Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy are the vanguard of the new; a vanguard that almost certainly would have been traded for mediocre to decent veterans, (like Torii Hunter or Dontrelle Willis) in the past. That’s new, too. The other young arms will form a hard-throwing corps of talented set up and middle relief, just like the Indians threw at them in this series.
“17 post-season games played. 13 post-season games lost.”
True enough. But if the you hang on for another year or two, that’s about to change, and for the better, I think. The main obstacle is the Red Sox, who have the same plan, and are about a year or two and several position players ahead.
It took you — what? — three hours to get your first off-season “fire Cashman!” post up?
Cashman has made his good moves and he’s made his bad moves. I think sometimes it’s too easy to nitpick a GM. For this argument to stand, you have to detail which moves he could have made and didn’t. Weaver, Vazquez, Pavano (somewhat) and Johnson all made sense at the time. Even Brown was coming off a great year and showed he could pitch in the AL until he got hurt.
But now Cashman has turned his attention to developing pitchers and we see the fruit of that: specifically in the post-season performances of Hughes and Joba (who was good when not getting attacked by bugs).
It’s disingenuous to simply say “Damon Oppenheimer chooses the draft picks.” He’s not alone and he doesn’t have final say. You think Damon does all the scouting by himself? It’s a huge operation that Cashman is a part of. If you don’t credit Cashman for who the team drafts, then you can’t credit any GM for its young players. But of course Cashman is involved in every aspect of the team and gets credit and blame for everything it does. It seems like the line about Oppenheimer is just a quick, fallacious way of dismissing the one indisputably good thing Cashman has done.
And seriously? “[S]hrinks faster every October than George Costanza’s tallywacker after a dip in a cold pool at the Hamptons”? Groan.
I disagree. I think Cashman is really starting to figure things out. It’s not his fault Wang crapped the bed. There is a lot to feel good about regarding the future of this club, and I don’t want to see it get stopped before it really gets rolling.
Sorry Steve, but I also agree with everyone else. Evan put it especially well hitting on the fact that whoever replaces Cash will have no “memory” of the past mistakes and is likely to try the win-now approach with drastic moves. Cash has learned from his mistakes and all indicators are pointing towards that. I don’t want the new GM to have to go through the whole learning process again. Cash is so close to making all the right moves. Replacing him at this point, IMHO, would be a disaster.
Well, its unanimous.
Cashman is NOT the problem. He is the solution. He is in the midst of assembling what may turn out to be one of the most dominant, young, home-grown pitching staffs in recent baseball history.
The problem with this post-season was simply Wang’s performance. When the #1 pitcher on other teams stepped up, Wang blew two games. That is not Cashman’s fault.
Cash has done an excellent job. Far better at his job than most baseball analysts are at theirs (wont mention any names here….)
This says it all about why the Yankees have failed in the playoffs the last few years:
In the last 17 playoff games the starting pitchers are 2-8 with a 6.36 ERA while averaging only 4 2/3 innings per start.
I join the others. Throwing Cashman overboard is premature in two ways — it’s a hasty response to disappointment (never a good way to make long-term decisions) and the plan he has put in place is starting to bear fruit.
No one expected Wang to “spit the bit” twice in one series. Guidry commented that he wasn’t finishing his pitches, so they were up. If there is blame here, maybe some belongs with the pitching coach for not being able to figure out a way to straighten out his ace starter.
There is no perfect GM. Cashman has finally figured out you need good young pitchers. And he kept them. That is more important than the mistake of Wil Nieves as BUC.
Jeter’s 3 GIDP helped kill this season.
And yes, it is a normal variation when you go 43-15 in the postseasons to then go 20-25.
bluke’s stat says it all.
You better have very good starting pitching in the post-season, and we haven’t had it.
These young pitchers need to develop. They will. Keep Cashman and Mr. Torre. Re-sign everybody.
And since Joba is moving to the rotation, comb the wilderness for that elusive set-up guy for Mo.
Over the last four seasons, 2004-2007, the Yankees team payroll has been around $190,000,000 per season. That’s by far the highest in baseball.
I’m sorry, I can’t give Cashman a buddy-pass for spending that much money over the last 4 years and not being able to build a team that can win in the post-season.
17 post-season games played. 13 post-season games lost.
That’s just terrible.
Some may want to give Cashman a thumbs up for coming up with some pitching prospects in the last few months, but, to me, that’s like saying you’re willing to put Kei Igawa in the starting rotation next year, based on his last outing this season, and ignoring all the turkeys that he threw before that one time.
That’s true that the payroll is $190 million. But that very high payroll is a function of two factors: where the Yankees were in the win cycle and a weak farm system.
First, homegrown players like Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte, and Bernie Williams a few years back became expensive because they became eligible for free agency and their great success (all with the Yankees except for Pettitte). No one would argue that giving those guys big money was a mistake.
Second, the expensive guys like A-Rod, Mussina, Giambi, Damon, Pavano, Farnsworth, Igawa, and Abreu on the current roster and RJohnson, Vazquez, Tom Gordon, Jaret Wright, Tony Womack and Kevin Brown in the recent past arrived as a result of the fact that the Yankees did not have any farm players to fill their roles on the team. Some of those guys have worked out and some have failed horribly. When a team has to acquire aging, expensive players via free agency or salary dump trades, you have to expect the success rate to be much lower.
The Red Sox did the same thing this year with Matsuzaka, Drew, Gagne, and Lugo. They did it with Clement as well. The difference is that their farm system has been more fertile than that of the Yankees. The brought Pedroia and Papelbon up. They had the prospects to trade to the Marlins for Beckett (a deal that the Yankees probably couldn’t have made in light of the sweetheart arrangement that the Sox have with the Marlins) and they had the money to pick up a salary dump like Lowell (with whom they got a little lucky) in the same deal.
Steve, you don’t seem to get it. Certainly, on the surface the “big payroll, playoff losses” problem seems like a GM issue, but you have to look closer than that. The fact that this series was effectively lost due to the ineffectiveness of a two time 19 game winner is WELL beyond the fault of the GM. If you want to fault Cashman because Jaret Wright or an injured Kevin Brown are pitching in a decisive playoff game, fine. But having Wang as the top of the rotation starter is part of Cashman’s plan, and for 2 straight years, to the tune of 19 wins in each, that plan worked fine. To expect him to lose 2 playoff games, and badly, is ridiculous.
Furthermore, examine the moves made as another poster suggested. The payroll is big, but there are limited players to spend that money on. Was Clemens worth $22 Mil ? No, but who else was available, and at what cost (certainly more than just $$$). The middle of the lineup – Jeter, Abreu, A-Rod, Matsui, Posada – are ALL expensive. None had a good series. Who SHOULD they have instead that they could get ? Are you in favor of picking up Abreu’s option and resigning Posada ? If so, how can you possibly fault the GM for having those players in the first place ?
I’m sorry but the “you should be able to buy a World Series for $190 Mil” is the most pathetic and simplistic argument that you could possibly make.
Me? When I look at the last four Yankees post-seasons, I see a total lack of competitive showing by New York.
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You may want to take a closer look, then.
Regarding Cashman, he’s made good moves and bad moves as a GM. What GM hasn’t?
As for the size of the payroll, top 5 earners (quick and dirty, no scientific research whatsoever);
2006
Alex Rodriguez $ 21,680,727
Derek Jeter $ 20,600,000
Jason Giambi $ 20,428,571
Mike Mussina $ 19,000,000
Randy Johnson $ 15,661,427
2005
Alex Rodriguez $ 26,000,000
Derek Jeter $ 19,600,000
Mike Mussina $ 19,000,000
Randy Johnson $ 16,000,000
Kevin Brown $ 15,714,286
2004
Alex Rodriguez $ 22,000,000
Derek Jeter $ 18,600,000
Mike Mussina $ 16,000,000
Kevin Brown $ 15,714,286
Gary Sheffield $ 13,000,000
2003
Derek Jeter $ 15,600,000
Raul Mondesi $ 13,000,000
Bernie Williams $ 12,357,143
Mike Mussina $ 12,000,000
Andy Pettitte $ 11,500,000
Talent costs $$.
jonm – so, the Red Sox front office, circa 2002-2007, has been smarter than the Yankees front office?
Sherard – I’m not saying that “you should be able to buy a World Series for $190 Mil.” I’m saying that, for $190 mil, you should be able to build a team who can put on a “competitive showing” (my exact words) in October and not lose 13 of 17 games played.
I’m not asking for the ring. I’m just asking for a decent showing in October. There’s a mountain of difference there.
~~~Regarding Cashman, he’s made good moves and bad moves as a GM. What GM hasn’t?~~~
How many other GMs have spent $190 mill a year and made the wrong moves?
How many other GMs have spent $190 mill a year and made the wrong moves?
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If you would stop focusing on the payroll number, you would have your answer. It seems you’re working under the assumption that because a player is paid more, he is better?
jonm – so, the Red Sox front office, circa 2002-2007, has been smarter than the Yankees front office?
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Given that this is this is the first time they’ve finished ahead of the Yanks since their last AL East title in 1995(!), I’d say the NYY FO is better.
Me? When I look at the last four Yankees post-seasons, I see a total lack of competitive showing by New York.
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Number of games decided by 2 runs or less (# of games in series)
2007: 2 (4)
2006: 1 (4)
2005: 4 (5)
2004: 3 (4), 4 (7)
So, out of 24 games, 14 were “competetive.”
competitive, too
Thank you, Raf. There is a tendency to take a “blow it up” attitude after these kinds of losses. We’ve run into some bad luck. A five game series is a crapshoot, and we’re 0 for our last 3. That’s all.
We could just as easily win the next three best-of-5 series we play from 2008-2010.
As a fan, my team played hard and with a lot of heart. They could have easily folded up the tent down 6-1, but they didn’t. And, unlike the other team in this town, the players on the Yanks appeared genuinely devastated by losing.
~~~Number of games decided by 2 runs or less~~~
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
~~~If you would stop focusing on the payroll number, you would have your answer. It seems you’re working under the assumption that because a player is paid more, he is better?~~~
No, I’m working under the expectation that if a player is paid more, he should be better.
You claimed the team hasn’t put up a competitive showing the last 4 postseasons, and they have.
And you know just as well as I that because a player is paid more does not necessarily mean he’s a better player.
As I posted above the problem with the Yankees in the last 3 years of the playoffs has been awful starting pitching. In the last 17 playoff games the starting pitchers are 2-8 with a 6.36 ERA while averaging only 4 2/3 innings per start. You can’t win when you pitch like that. I think that Cashman in the last few years has taken steps to combat that and the fruits are Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy.
jonm – so, the Red Sox front office, circa 2002-2007, has been smarter than the Yankees front office?
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I’m not saying that at all. In terms of acquiring major league talent, all things equal, the two front offices have been about the same. The Yankees certainly had more talent going into 2003, but where the Red Sox have made up the difference is in their farm system. I would say that the Red Sox had a better farm system from 2002-2006 (NOT through 2007) than the Yankees.
The Red Sox, like the Yankees, have made some mistakes: Clement, Renteria, Gagne, Drew, Lugo, Crisp (who looked great at the time of the deal), amd Alex Gonzalez. Their one great success was the Schilling deal and they made that by dealing over-rated prospects for him. The Beckett deal was a fair deal; they gave up talented prospects (Ramirez/Sanchez) to get talent).
~No, I’m working under the expectation that if a player is paid more, he should be better.~
Kevin Brown. Mike Hampton. Both overpaid, neither a Cashman deal in terms of signing the contract.
~~~In the last 17 playoff games the starting pitchers are 2-8 with a 6.36 ERA while averaging only 4 2/3 innings per start. You can’t win when you pitch like that. I think that Cashman in the last few years has taken steps to combat that and the fruits are Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy. ~~~
And, is it not Cashman’s fault that those SP for the 17 games were on the team? Should be not be fired for those mistakes?
What if Joba, Hughes and Kennedy become like Wilson, Isringhausen and Pulsipher were for the Mets? It’s possible.
I can’t see keeping Brian for what he might do for the future when he’s been so bad for the last 4+ years at building a team that can win games in the post-season.
~~~The Yankees certainly had more talent going into 2003, but where the Red Sox have made up the difference is in their farm system. I would say that the Red Sox had a better farm system from 2002-2006 (NOT through 2007) than the Yankees.~~~
And, who was in charge of the populating the Yankees farm system, or overseeing that person, from 2002 to 2006? If the Yankees had few prospects at that time, was he doing his job? If not, why is he still here?
Steve,
This is a fun exercise: go to Retrosheet and look at the transactions to see which players have been traded or signed as free agents in all of the off-seasons since the World Series of 2003 (blown by Torre and, in my mind, the beginning of the current Yankee era). This beginning point means that the Yankees already have Mussina and Giambi (with hindsight, the Giambi signing was a bad one and the Mussina signing was just okay) and Boston already has Ramirez and Ortiz (both great moves).
If you try to re-construct moves which the Yankees should have made, you will find that it is very difficult to do much better than they did — it’s especially hard if you limit yourself to what was known at the time.
What pains me most is the deals that the Yankees made that were good at the time, but didn’t work out. Weaver (acquired in 2002) should have been a good Yankee pitcher (he was young and had put up good numbers for Detroit). Vazquez is even worse. Given what he had done as an Expo, he really should have put up better numbers than he did.
I can’t see keeping Brian for what he might do for the future when he’s been so bad for the last 4+ years at building a team that can win games in the post-season.
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Because he’s done a pretty good job of building teams that win in the regular season. Which you need to do in order to make the postseason.
162 > 19. Always.
~~~And, who was in charge of the populating the Yankees farm system, or overseeing that person, from 2002 to 2006? If the Yankees had few prospects at that time, was he doing his job? If not, why is he still here?~~~
That question proves my point; things started looking up in 2006. Cashman had no control over the farm system at all until he signed his contract after the 2005 season. The farm system before that was controlled by the Tampa people and I think that he has eliminated many of those people.
Fire, Fire, Fire! Every year we don’t win the WS we should just fire everybody! Stability is over rated!!
~~~Because he’s done a pretty good job of building teams that win in the regular season. Which you need to do in order to make the postseason.~~~
No question, he’s found a formula to win 95+ games in the AL and reach October. But, the formula is flawed in that it does not work in October.
Doesn’t it make more sense to get someone who can come up with a formula that works during the season AND October TOO?
~~~Doesn’t it make more sense to get someone who can come up with a formula that works during the season AND October TOO?~~~
Maybe, is Walt Jocketty that person?
I torture myself with counter-factuals, I wonder, if the Yankees had fired Torre after the 2003 WS debacle, what the Yankees’ record would have been in the Octobers since.
And, is it not Cashman’s fault that those SP for the 17 games were on the team? Should be not be fired for those mistakes?
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As a fan, it’s ok to be disappointed, but you’re not making any sense.
The SP for those 17 games were; Wang, Pettitte, Clemens, Mussina, Johnson, Wright, Chacon, Lieber & Brown (I may have left someone out). You don’t think Cashman should’ve aquired any of them?
Raf,
The objective is not to make the playoffs but win the WS. So far the formula hasn’t worked.
I do think that Cashman has turned the page and is actually trying to change things. Think about this, the Yankees rotation next year could potentially be Wang, Pettite, Chamberlain, Hughes, and Kennedy. 5 home grown starters 3 of them under 25.
~~~If you try to re-construct moves which the Yankees should have made, you will find that it is very difficult to do much better than they did — it’s especially hard if you limit yourself to what was known at the time.~~~
Back on 1/6/07, I wrote about this in a way – saying: ~But, isn’t it Brian Cashman’s job to be smarter than the average bear when it comes to acquiring talent? Or, is it just O.K. for him to follow the path of conventional wisdom when it comes to acquiring pitching and then if it doesn’t work out it’s just a matter of shrugging your shoulders at the results and saying “It seemed like a good idea at the time”?
~
In any event, reading all this over, I pretty sure that I’ve shared what my point was on this one. To keep hammering on it, would be over advancing it – and probably annoying. Therefore, I’m going to let it stand, as is – since it’s still my position. It’s fine if anyone wants to disagree. I’m happy to agree to disagree with anyone on this now and leave it at that.
~Doesn’t it make more sense to get someone who can come up with a formula that works during the season AND October TOO?~
For twelve straight years? The only one who comes close is John Schuerholz; two more years but three fewer rings.
The only 2 pitchers I like are Wang and Pettite. Mussina was a good move when they signed him 5-6 years ago but the 2 year extension last year for 11million a year was not. Johnson and Clemens were a shell of their former greatness.
Doesn’t it make more sense to get someone who can come up with a formula that works during the season AND October TOO?
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There is no such formula. Baseball isn’t designed that way. You should be able to find points in the season where the Yanks went 1-3. So why should we be surprised when they do it in the postseason?
The Yanks have won and lost with good hitting, the Yanks have won and lost with good pitching.
There is a post season formula, good starting pitching. If you look at teams that have success in the post season it is because they have top notch starting pitching, especially a true number 1 starter.
There is a post season formula, good starting pitching. If you look at teams that have success in the post season it is because they have top notch starting pitching, especially a true number 1 starter.
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And if you look at teams that have failed in the postseason, you will find the same. If it were about starting pitching, then the Braves, when they had Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz would have won a lot more than they have. Oakland, when they had Zito-Hudson-Mulder would’ve won more than they have
We’ll see this year; Boston led the league in ERA. Last year it was the Tigers.
2005: CHW
2004: MIN
2003: OAK
2002: OAK
The last 2 years sort of prove my point. Detroit and Chicago both went to the World Series, with Chicago winning the WS. This year both Cleveland and Boston have great starting pitching which is what has carried them.
One other point is that not all great pitchers are equal. Power pitchers seem to fare much better in the post-season then finesses type pitchers like Glavine, Maddux, etc.
If you go back to 2004, Minnesota had 1 great pitcher in Santana and 1 good pitcher in Radke. The Red Sox had Schilling (21-6 3.26) and Pedro Martinez (16-9 3.90), a very good tandem. The Yankees in the last 3 years have not had that kind of tandem.
Power pitchers seem to fare much better in the post-season then finesses type pitchers like Glavine, Maddux, etc.
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Bluke, you mean guys like Jimmy Key, Andy Pettitte, El Duque, David Wells, and David Cone? Yep, you convinced me.
But since you’re sticking to your guns about the 2005 and 2006 AL pennant winners, then, certainly Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, and Kenny Rogers all fit the bill too.
Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson are two big-time power pitchers that have experienced both great success and serious failure in the playoffs. Where do they fit into your theory about power pitchers?
In comparison in 2004 the Yankees didn’t have a regular starter with an ERA under 4
One more point about pitchers. The Yankees have not had a guy that people don’t want to face and are scared of. Wang may have won 19 games the past 2 years but no one is scared of him. Teams do not want to face Beckett, Sabatthia, Santana, etc.
Bluke, by your logic, no one was scared of Maddux or Glavine when they pitched for Atlanta. That’s just nonsense.
No one was scared of Glavine and Maddux in the same way that they were scared of Randy Johnson and Clemens in their prime.
Glavine and Maddux were tremendous pitchers in their prime, but you didn’t get the feeling that hitters didn’t want to or were afraid to face them, you did get that with the great power pitchers like Clemens, Johnson, etc.
In Maddux’s 4 consecutive Cy Young Years in the early 90s, his TOTAL ERA was 1.98 and his WHIP was 0.95. That’s over four seasons! I don’t care if he threw 45 MPH…that would scare me as a hitter.
It’s taken me the last three years to see what Steve is talking about here: the Yankees aren’t built for the postseason. Their lineup is built to draw walks and hit home runs, to feast on the mediocre pitching in the league. They don’t make adjustments (which is critical in the playoffs)so you end up with 14-4 wins and 7-2 losses. How many of those did we see this year? How much have the last couple regular seasons tilted between night and day? The wretched beginnings of the ’05 and ’07 seasons were not indicative of a team that could deliver the consistency needed to win in the playoffs. When the Yanks lost to the Marlins and fired Rick Down, the reason was the Yankees couldn’t make contact hits against good pitching. They still can’t. I blame Cashman rather than Kevin Long: there’s no bench, so guys like A-Rod and Jeter have to play everyday and and never have any kind of rest going into the postseason. There’s no ace pitcher who can set the table for the rest of the series. Wang is undeniably a number 2. There’s no question Petite was anything else. Why is it so much to ask, in the AL East, to get an ace pitcher? The Yankees better go after Johan Santana this offseason.
It’s just time for Joe to go. He’s run out of juice and can’t beat guys like Sosia and Leyland because of his “Stars First” mentality. A little more small ball in the playoffs would have helped, but the problem is he doesn’t stress fundamentals enough during the season (bunting, moving runners over, etc….) and can’t turn it on at the last minute. Yanks had plenty of chances to manufacture a couple of runs and passed, playing for the big inning.
Signing Mo and Jorgie are easy. I’ll stick with the same theme I’ve had for years and continue to say they’d be nuts to trade A-Rod (or in this case let him walk). Hopefully Andy comes back; the guy still knows how to pitch. Wang hit a mechanical glitch a few weeks ago and couldn’t manage to get the ball down in the zone. He’ll be alright, but his #1 status is tarnished right now.
Now for some hard ones…. Abreau?… might let him go. Matsui…If they keep Abreau…might let him go cause he’s tradable. Solid citizen, but no one is afriad of him anymore. He’s developed a hole in his swing and they can attack him very effectively with good pitching Giambi?…. Might have to just eat his contract and DFA him. Moose/ have a nice retirement. Farnsworth? Goodbye big fella. Needs are: a 4th outfielder with good defense, a strong arm and base-stealing potential. Sign Molina and keep looking for a young catcher. Assuming Joba moves to the rotation, the bullpen, other than Mo and maybe Vizci, needs to be redone. Still think the Yanks need an ace and need to look for a big bat for first base.
No one was scared of Glavine and Maddux in the same way that they were scared of Randy Johnson and Clemens in their prime.
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Regardless, in their primes, RJ & Clemens failed more than they succeeded in the postseason.
#15, I couldn’t disagree more with your argument.
On smallball: read this blog enough and you’ll invariably hear people moaning about the bat being taken out of Jeter’s hands with all his bunt attempts. If anything, the loss in the 2003/2004 playoffs made the team reactionary towards the smallball effect. Further, this is already a fundamentally sound team. It’s a team of very astute and aware baserunners who always grab the extra bag and who know how to hit to the opposite field.
On Abreu: why wouldn’t you bring Abreu back for $16M? He had a horrendous month of May but was a productive player thereafter. He isn’t a great outfield defender with the glove but he’s got a good arm and fits in very nicely in the lineup. I’ve got no complaints with his play and, at $16M and playing for a new deal, he’s something of a bargain these days. Further, who out there in free agency would you replace him with?
On Matsui: he’s got a full no-trade clause and is due $26M over the next two years. It’ll be hard to trade him. Personally, I think Torre had the right idea platooning him and Damon in LF and giving the other one the AB’s at DH. He’s not “Godzilla” but he’s not hurting the club. And it’s not about “being afraid of him” as much as it’s about lengthening the lineup with a guy that, when healthy, is productive.
On Giambi: why eat the contract and DFA him? Why not eat the contract and trade him for value. What on earth would be the point of eating the contract and getting nothing in return?
On Moose: I don’t get the feeling he’s retiring. What makes you think he is?
On bullpen: the bullpen will be redone with more help from the minor leagues. The team seems to want to make Ohlendorf a full-time reliever. There’s one. We’ve already got Edwar and Veras. That’s two more. Chris Britton is going to be a part of the team next year. That’s one more. Vizcaino is a free agent and may or may not be brought back. There’s no sense in throwing money around in free agency when we’ve seen that a lot of the money spent on relief pitchers is just wasted. Maybe you keep Vizcaino and put some kids around him. Maybe you also bring in one more veteran arm (someone like a Mike Timlin). But the Twins and others have shown us that you can build a good bullpen by letting the kids cut their teeth in a relief role. If relief pitching is a total crapshoot anyway, why not go the cheap route and see what the younger arms can do? The Yanks have several AA- and AAA-level arms that can be given an opportunity to earn roles in the bullpen.
On the need for an ace: who is available? All the big-time aces are locked up in long-term deals. We’ve seen free agent pitching blow up in so many cities. So unless you’re talking about trading for Johan Santana or Jake Peavy, I don’t have any idea what you think you can get. And, oh, by the way, Santana and Peavy will cost at least Hughes/Chamberlain if not more. Worth it?
On the need for a big bat at 1B: not a single “big bat” is available in free agency this year. Further, what’s the point? The team led the majors in runs scored for the second straight year with a two-year platoon of Jason Giambi, Shelley Duncan, Doug Mientkiewicz, Andy Phillips, Wilson Betemit, Josh Phelps, Johnny Damon, Jorge Posada, Miguel Cairo, Craig Wilson, Gary Sheffield, and Aaron Guiel. No one player played more than 94 games at the position over the past two years. Didn’t seem to hurt the offense at all.
There is definitely no “type” of pitcher that succeeds more than another in the post-season. It’s just about throwing strikes and making good pitches (a cliche, but the truth).
#15, the Yanks DID play small ball – i believe they were 1st or 2nd in the AL in sacrifices.
RichDank, how do you explain the Boston-Anaheim series? Boston’s like the Yanks, built to walk and HR vs. Anaheim’s smallball, hit-n-run contact team. Boston swept right through them.
Steve, the truth behind two of Boston’s best moves was luck: 1. Ortiz was a #5 hitter at best when they acquired him – i think the monster with the addition of some ‘other assistance’ turned him into the hitter he is. 2. Lowell was a throw in that Boston didn’t even want – he turned out to have a great year.
then look at the shit signings: Clement, Coco, Drew, Gagne, etc. yes, they made some good moves too, but (as with everything in baseball) a lot of luck was involved.
i agree with whoever said just as the Yanks have lost 3 straight LDSs, they could just as easily win the next 3. i mean, game 2 was the turning point. if the plague doesnt descend upon the Jake, i’m certain Joba shuts them down and the Yanks return with a split.
who said we have no bench? Cashman did a great job to fix that in the 2nd half: Betemit, Shelley, Molina – those guys could be starting on some teams.
as for Santana, i’d be willing to split with any player except Joba and Hughes. the odds are he’s going to be a FA anyway after 08 so in the words of Cash Money, why pay twice for the same guy? and i’d probably be fine with a 1b platoon of Shelley/Betemit next year (assuming Arod returns), with perhaps Miranda coming onboard at some point.
First, on Cashman:
There is no doubt that some stupid moves have been made the past several years, especially in terms of pitching. Still, one has to realize that a lot of this is 20-20 hindsight. More importantly, the question is “compared to what?” I agree with the other commenters that another GM might very well have given in and traded (Joba? Melky?) for Gagne. For better or worse, we now seem to be at a stage where the front office is committed to developing its own talent — it’s far too early to pull the plug.
On next year (how many days till spring training?), let’s resign Jorge, Mo and A-Rod. Abreu is a good player but I’d rather have a another right-handed bat — how about Rowand or Cameron? I’m also willing to bet that Mussina bounces back next year — not an ace, but a useful 4-5 starter. A rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, and one of Mussina/Chamberlain/Kennedy is not bad. (I’m still not convinced that Joba doesn’t belong in the ‘pen.)
Hey Steve, I wrote a lot about this over at my blog, but I wanted to ask you this:
Do you think having such a high payroll has hindered Cashman’s development as a GM? I agree with you that Cashman has laid a lot of eggs and not being competitive in the postseason seems remarkable given the resources, but in some ways do you think Cashman looks at payroll as a way to cover over mistakes because he’s never really been hindered by it?
Therefore he just sort of signs disjointed pieces to a puzzle and hopes it all works out somehow? The pitching is obviously a glaring weakness when you look at Yankees starters in terms of pitching VORP or Yankees relievers in WXRL. If you are giving credit to Oppenheimer for Chamberlein, Kennedy and Hughes then realistically what has Cashman done that anyone else couldn’t have done with a blank check and do you think those constraints have possibly retarded Cashman’s evolution as a GM?
do you think Cashman looks at payroll as a way to cover over mistakes because he’s never really been hindered by it?
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After shedding the Sheffield, Johnson & Wright salaries, I’d have to say “no.”
I think Cashman has made an effort to get the payroll “leaner and meaner,” for lack of a better term.
I guess we’ll have a better idea of the direction the team is heading this offseason.
“the Yankees of the last four seasons have been a team built without what it takes to win in the post-season.”
Please tell me how a team can win in the post season without making it to the post season. This is a moronic statement. The pundits all agreed that that the Angels were a team “built for the post season”. How’d that work out? In case you haven’t noticed, the AL East is becoming much more competitive. How inclined would a new GM be to deal young talent for verterans to hang on and not be known as the guy who didn’t make the playoffs?
Cashman has a plan and has resisted giving up youth. You are acting like the rest of the spoiled NYY fans who feel that anything less than a WS win is unacceptable. How many teams have even qualified for the playoffs in the last TWO years? One, the NYY, who have gone to the playoffs 12 years in a row. And don’t give me that crap that it was the $$$. To a man, the team said that w/o Joe, they wouldn’t have qualified for the playoffs.
If Cash goes, who do you want? Who would you trust not to deal away some of our young prospects?
As the old saying goes, “Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.”
“MJ:Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson are two big-time power pitchers that have experienced both great success and serious failure in the playoffs. Where do they fit into your theory about power pitchers?”
With his team facing elimination, Clemens has one win in seven chances and a 5.28 ERA.
Where does the great success come in?
Where does the great success come in?
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For the Yanks, 1999 ALDS, 1999 WS, 2000 ALCS, 2000 WS, 2001 WS, 2003 ALDS were all great performances. And 2001 ALCS and 2003 WS were pretty good too.
~~~Do you think having such a high payroll has hindered Cashman’s development as a GM? I agree with you that Cashman has laid a lot of eggs and not being competitive in the postseason seems remarkable given the resources, but in some ways do you think Cashman looks at payroll as a way to cover over mistakes because he’s never really been hindered by it?~~~
I’m not sure.
I do think the extra budget, compared to most teams, allows him to be lazy at times – and not have to find talent in the same manner as some other GMs. And, the money allows him to take risks that no one else would consider – like Brackman. But, has it set back his development as a GM? Maybe? Sure, maybe – you know, if you have muscles that you don’t have to use because you have another way of getting something done, then those muscles will never develop….yeah, it’s possible.
65 comments, is that a record?
And of course, there is the obvious question that Lombardi doesnt address.
Fire Cashman, and replace him with ……?
The tooth fairy?
If you cant answer that question, why bother proposing the firing?
~~~Fire Cashman, and replace him with ……?~~~
Tano, I addressed that 4 months ago:
http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2007/05/the_yankees_bit.html