Will The 2008 Yankees Add To This List?
Posted by Steve L. on December 6th, 2007 · Comments (15)
Teams, since 1973, who have had 2+ starters age 23 or younger make 30+ starts each during a season:
Year Lg Team Number Players Matching +----+--+---------------------------------+------+-----------------------------------------+ 1980 AL Chicago White Sox 3 Britt Burns / Richard Dotson / Steve Trout 2007 AL Tampa Bay Devil Rays 2 Scott Kazmir / Edwin Jackson 2006 AL Detroit Tigers 2 Jeremy Bonderman / Justin Verlander 2003 NL Chicago Cubs 2 Carlos Zambrano / Mark Prior 2002 AL Chicago White Sox 2 Mark Buehrle / Jon Garland 2001 AL Oakland Athletics 2 Barry Zito / Mark Mulder 1998 NL Florida Marlins 2 Livan Hernandez / Brian Meadows 1996 AL Minnesota Twins 2 Frank Rodriguez / Brad Radke 1993 AL Chicago White Sox 2 Alex Fernandez / Wilson Alvarez 1988 NL Atlanta Braves 2 Tom Glavine / Pete Smith 1986 AL Milwaukee Brewers 2 Bill Wegman / Juan Nieves 1986 NL New York Mets 2 Dwight Gooden / Sid Fernandez 1986 AL Texas Rangers 2 Ed Correa / Bobby Witt 1985 AL Kansas City Royals 2 Danny Jackson / Bret Saberhagen 1984 AL California Angels 2 Mike Witt / Ron Romanick 1984 NL New York Mets 2 Ron Darling / Dwight Gooden 1978 AL Oakland Athletics 2 John Henry Johnson / Matt Keough 1976 NL St. Louis Cardinals 2 Pete Falcone / John Denny 1973 NL Cincinnati Reds 2 Don Gullett / Ross Grimsley
Well, it did work for the ’85 Royals and ’86 Mets…
…but, in reality, only about one-third of these teams had very good seasons.
Again, Steve, you’ve got to watch your selectivity and your context.
When you look at these teams that ran this young kids out there, the fact that they did that is probably exemplary of the way their team was built. Why have a rotation that’s not built to win with a team thats now built to win?
The point is, you have to judge each situation on it’s own merit. The Yankees going with Joba, Phil and Kennedy in some combination are doing so because they believe it’s the best option given whats available. We’ve certainly heard about them exploring other options. This certainly isn’t a case of, say, the 2007 Devil Rays, who just don’t have any desire to sign some veteran starters. They’ll go with their kids and not really care what happens. I’m not up to snuff on the other clubs, but I’d guess that is the situation with most of them as well.
now=not
~~Again, Steve, you’ve got to watch your selectivity and your context.~~
Still, at the end of the day, when asked “How many teams in the last 35 years have won World Series rings with a starting rotation that had two guys (or more), aged 23 or younger, make 30+ starts each?” the answer is “Just two.”
And, that’s a fact, jack.
If the Yankees really start the ’08 season with 2 or 3 of the ‘kids’ in the starting rotation then it is, in effect, a statement that the future is more important than one season. I am one fan who can live with that. It’s better than joining the arms race and being stuck with an underperforming Johan Santana in the late years of his contract.
How great would it be in 2009 or 2010 if the Yankees had less payroll and a better record than the Sox?
Steve,
Do you think that the Yankees should trade Hughes, Kennedy, and Cabrera for Santana? If not, what do you think that the Yankees should do to avoid having this horrible fate (3 young starters in the rotation)?
And, that’s a fact, jack.
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Not to mention disingenious. To me, it implies that the reason why many of these teams didn’t “have very good seasons” is because they had a starting rotation with “two guys (or more), aged 23 or younger, make 30+ starts each.”
Anyway, in the interest of context
1980 AL Chicago White Sox^ (5th)
2007 AL Tampa Bay Devil Rays^ (5th)
2006 AL Detroit Tigers*
2003 NL Chicago Cubs*
2002 AL Chicago White Sox (2nd)
2001 AL Oakland Athletics*
1998 NL Florida Marlins^ (5th)
1996 AL Minnesota Twins^ (4th)
1993 AL Chicago White Sox*
1988 NL Atlanta Braves^ (6th)
1986 AL Milwaukee Brewers^ (6th)
1986 NL New York Mets*
1986 AL Texas Rangers (2nd)
1985 AL Kansas City Royals*
1984 AL California Angels (2nd)
1984 NL New York Mets (2nd)
1978 AL Oakland Athletics^ (6th)
1976 NL St. Louis Cardinals^ (5th)
1973 NL Cincinnati Reds*
*= made playoffs
^= finished below .500
The reason a third of those teams didn’t have very good seasons is because they weren’t very good to begin with.
Wait, so assuming all else is equal, winning 2 World Series titles out of 19 seasons is a BAD thing? That’s a 1 out of 10 shot, when there are 30 teams in the league.
I think you’ve just shown that Yankee fans should be optimistic, because all else isn’t equal, it’s in the Yankees favor.
Sorry to get off-topic, but…
I’m not sure if it was mentioned anywhere else, but the San Fran Giants apparently are interested in Matsui (who, with the insane contracts for outfielders this year, is a decent option with his current contract). The Giants are having talks with the Jays about Lincecum for Rios. Obviously Matsui doesn’t have the same value at his age and price that Rios does, but Rios isn’t exactly a superstar. I like him very much and think he’s talented, but to give up Lincecum for him? Some people were disappointed with Lincecum’s season (these people are insane, of course) and worry about his size, but at worse he’s a closer-to-be. I wonder if the Yankees added a good prospect with Matsui if they could somehow, magically, pry Lincecum away from the Giants…
~~~Do you think that the Yankees should trade Hughes, Kennedy, and Cabrera for Santana? If not, what do you think that the Yankees should do to avoid having this horrible fate (3 young starters in the rotation)?~~~
I would not trade the kids for a SP. But, I would pick up one more vet SP as insurance to use in their place in case they fail.
I wonder if the Yankees added a good prospect with Matsui if they could somehow, magically, pry Lincecum away from the Giants…
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I love Lincy. He’s got lights out stuff, plus-plus movement on his breaking pitch and tremendous movement and velocity on his fastball. How do you think he’d do in the AL vs. the NL?
I feel the whole AL/NL thing is really about talent. If you’re talented (Pettitte, Johnson year one, Schilling, Beckett year two) you can go from the NL to the AL and be fine. But if you’re not that good (Jaret Wright, Clement, etc.) then you will fail.
Lincecum’s stuff is so good I think he can get any hitter out.
I think this would be an incredible move for Cashman and the Yanks.
I think the mentality of this is typical of the way many Yakee fans think, in that they are only worried about the here and now. The Yankees will put a competitive team on the field in 08′ even if they don’t make a big splash this off-season. They will compete for the AL East. But I for one am very interested to see if they can develop three quality starters from within, and have them as the foundation of this team for the next decade +. I wouldn’t despise a deal for a top line starter, but the Yanks need more solidifying in the pen. They do that and they will be formiddable.
I would not trade the kids for a SP. But, I would pick up one more vet SP as insurance to use in their place in case they fail.
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Given the options out there, they may be better off with the kids…
Anyway, as it currently stands, they have 8-9 starters.
~~~Anyway, as it currently stands, they have 8-9 starters.~~~
But, only three that are proven – and one of them is old.
But, only three that are proven – and one of them is old.
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That may be the case, but I’m sure they could put up comparable numbers to the available retreads;
Tony Armas, Kris Benson, Matt Clement, Bartolo Colon, Elmer Dessens, Josh Fogg, Freddy Garcia, Livan Hernandez, Jason Jennings, Byung-Hyun Kim, Hiroki Kuroda, Jon Lieber, Kyle Lohse, Rodrigo Lopez, Eric Milton, Russ Ortiz, Odalis Perez, Mark Redman, Carlos Silva, John Thomson, Brett Tomko, Steve Trachsel, Jeff Weaver, David Wells, Kip Wells
Many of these guys were hurt, many were ineffective. I’ll take my chances with the younger guys, unless someone listed above comes at an incredible bargain.