Nonetheless, this is a silly rhetorical device that you are constructing so that you can say, “I think Cashman sucks, and nooooobody can convince me otherwise, I even gave them the opportunity and they couldn’t do it.”

When you say things like ‘Championships were won by the players’ you point out the futility of the entire exercise. You could use that line of reasoning to diminish everything a GM ever does. Ultimately it’s the players.

I think a more honset way to do this, would be to shoot an e-mail over to the dudes at NoMaas, who are on record as loving Cashman. Take them on, see what they have to contribute to this debate.

Or, is it just safer to stay in the crowd, taking pot shots at the presentation, than being on stage, as the presenter, where you’re open to inspection?
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Yeah, uh, whatever.

I don’t know what your problem is, I’ve debated your comments with respect. I don’t need to write an essay to tell you why you’ve been wrong on Cashman. If you haven’t read my entries, why should I waste my time and effort doing something I don’t need to do for someone who has no interest in reading it.

Your main gripe has to do with Yankees postseason performance, but here’s the deal as what I posted earlier;

One of the reasons why the Yanks haven’t had a parade since 2000 is because of the failure of these normally reliable players;

2001: Pettitte, Rivera
2002: Pettitte, Duque, Stanton, Wells
2004: Rivera, Brown, Vazquez
2005: Johnson, Mussina, A.Rodriguez
2006: Mussina, Johnson
2007: Wang

There are too many variables to list, and to take into consideration. From the looks of it, Stick’s guys have failed, Watson’s guys have failed, Cashman’s guys have failed.

You want simple answers to complex questions, black and white answers where they cannot be found, and I’m not going to get sucked into it anymore than I have, especially when you move the goalposts like you do;

“They came damn close in 01 and 03 – and Torre’s pitching moves did them in both times.” So are we getting on Torre’s managing, or are we getting on Cashman for acquiring the pitchers that failed in the big spots? Pitchers who have succeeded in those big spots? Is it Cashman’s/Torre’s fault that Pettitte was shelled in 01? Is it Cashman’s/Torre’s fault that Rivera couldn’t nail the save in game 7? You complain about Weaver in ’03. You know what, the Marlins winning TIED the series. The Yanks had two other opportunities to advance in the series.

You said the Yanks haven’t been competitive in the postseason. That’s not true.

You’ve complained about Marty Miller. I showed quotes where the players said they didn’t listen to the trainer (the exercises were too hard; can you believe it?). Is that Cashman’s, Torre’s or Miller’s fault?

You complained about the ineffectiveness of the pitching staff. So do we have a problem with the fact that they’ve imploded, or the fact that there was enough breadth and depth in the system that weathered the implosion? And who gets credit for the breadth and depth?

So on and so forth. Any point you’ve brought up, the reasonable ones, I’ve debated using stats and facts.

It’s like debating with a wall. You obviously don’t want to listen, because you keep bringing up the same points up over and over again, despite them being disproven over and over again.

So, yeah, I’m also done with the Cashman topic as well, unless you bring up something off the wall ridiculous.

the jury is still out on two of his bigger moves: the RJ and Sheff trades.

i dont have the time or energy to write an essay so here’s 4 things:
1. postseason berths for a decade straight. no other team has ever done that.
1b. best record in MLB 6 times (in just 10 years!)
2. the Arod trade.
2b. Justice trade.
2c. getting anything for Irabu, Wright and RJ.
2d. Abreu trade.
3. Moose deal.
3b. supposedly wanting Vlad over Sheff.
3c. Matsui.
4. revamped the farm system – we’ll be stacked with good, cheap, homegrown guys for years.

“Since 2003, it’s been the same story. Use the bats to make up for weak pitching, during the season, and then get spanked in the LDS, or, in the case of 2004, the LCS.”
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Cash realized that the pitching was a weakness, but he had no control over the draft, and he was dependent on a farm system that had failed to produce a quality pitching prospect from Pettitte to Wang, so obviously his options were limited.

So he tried to paste together a starting rotation by acquriing Weaver (who was subsequently turned into Brown), Vazquez, and Pavano, all of whom were highly valued around MLB when he acquired them. He employed a similar process to fill out the pen, succeeding only with Gordon and to a lesser extent Proctor.

Granted, that route failed. So he lobbied ownership to get control over the draft, finally winning out in 2005.

Since then, I think it’s inarguable that he has done a tremendous job (with Oppenheimer’s help).

If Hank doesn’t interfere with the plan going forward, the Yankees are on a glide path to having one of the best pitching staffs in MLB for years.

OK, this will be my last comment on this entry….

to all, anyone…

If I’m wrong on Cashman, show me why, with an essay – and I’m publish it for you. Please, do it.

That’s all I’m asking for here. Thanks.

~~~That changes and focuses the question. Now, the question becomes “why have Cashman’s players not done well in the post-season?” ~~~

I don’t believe that it changes the question. Cashman has built regular season teams that are heavy on hitters and weak on pitching – because of his inability to pick pitchers. Those teams manage to win 95 games in the regular season by scoring tons of runs. But, those teams fail in October because the weak pitching stays weak and the hitters melt when facing the good pitchers only on the good teams – which the playoff format allows.

If Cashman could pick pitchers, and build a regular season team based on strong pitching with hitting, then he would win in the regular season AND win in October.

The regular season thing and the October thing is the same thing…the thing being how Cashman builds his team.

~~~Fine, even if you say that Cash’s Yanks are the post-2003 squads, they’ve still made the playoffs every year and went to a WS. How many other teams have done that in that span? Zero.~~~

Since 2003, it’s been the same story. Use the bats to make up for weak pitching, during the season, and then get spanked in the LDS, or, in the case of 2004, the LCS.

How many teams have made October every season since 2004 and been dismissed, with ease, in the playoff? Just one. Cashman’s team.

~~~wasn’t Watson’s whole reason for resigning because he felt “powerless’ as GM?~~~

IIRC, Watson left because he didn’t want to work 18 hour days anymore.

~~~Just out of curiosity, Steve: when would you have fired Cash and who would you have replaced him with? I’m just curious which year you thought deserved a firing and if you had a realistic GM candidate who could have come in at the time and made an improvement (not saying you don’t; just curious if you thought it through to that point).~~~

See: http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2007/05/the_yankees_bit.html

At this point, I’d like to give Damon O. a shot.

~~~But they didn’t win rings when Stick’s/Watson’s guys were there in 01, 02 & 03 either… ~~~

They came damn close in 01 and 03 – and Torre’s pitching moves did them in both times.