• Kyle Lohse

    Posted by on January 23rd, 2008 · Comments (22)

    Kyle Lohse will only be 29-years old this season. He’s usually good for 30 starts and around 190 inning pitched. Sure, with that, he’s going to allow batters to hit .280 against him. And, as a Free Agent, he’s probably going to want a four-year deal, and will not come cheap. But, I keep thinking back to those “pretty sure” starts and innings, and have to wonder if the Yankees should look into picking him up (off the market) this winter? Don’t get me wrong, I would only sign him if you also secured full rights to trade him – because you probably don’t want him around for the full four years. It’s just that I can’t shake the feeling that someone who can give the Yankees 30 starts and near 200 IP, albeit less than stellar innings, could come in handy this season.

    Comments on Kyle Lohse

    1. A Tampa Yankee in King George's Court
      January 24th, 2008 | 12:06 am

      Steve

      Did you see Pete Abe’s post over at Lohud about Chuck Knoblauch? It is hilarious…..

      http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/23/have-you-seen-this-man-2/

    2. ChrisNewcomb
      January 24th, 2008 | 1:18 am

      How can you consistently criticize Cashman for giving Pavano and Vasquez long term deals and then advocate something like this? If I see that the Yankees are even considering Lohse in real life, I am almost sure to throw up. Less than stellar innings in the National League have been known to turn into horrible innings in the American League. I’d rather deal with 20 starts from Igawa if need be than sink more money into a mediocre pitcher who you know is over-priced from the moment you sign him. They already have six starters in the hopper right now with a couple other guys who can fill in adequately. Why start the clock on another guy whose Yankee career will consist of the fans and the team waiting for his contract to expire?

    3. Yu Hsing Chen
      January 24th, 2008 | 4:23 am

      I have to agree with Chris there, less than steller innings in the NL could turn into complete destruction in the majors.

      If your simply looking for guys who can pitch a lot then Kei Igawa is one. that doesn’t mean it’s good or ideal though.

      Carl Pavano and Javier Vazquez were both younger AND better than Lohse, you do realize that don’t you? and in Vazquez’s case.. A LOT better. they both also threw 400 inning in thier last 2 year befoer arriving.

      So you think having a 06 RJ , 05 Moose is a good thing? good to the point of locking 4 / 40 into?

      seriously, if you want insurance, I’d rather go to Shawn Chacon again before I go to Kyle Lohse.

    4. Yu Hsing Chen
      January 24th, 2008 | 4:24 am

      by the way, Kyle Lohse has toped 200 inning exactly once in his career.

    5. williamnyy
      January 24th, 2008 | 6:47 am

      That would be an awful idea. I agree with the sentiment above that it is kind of ironic that one who criticizes Cashman would suggest such a move. That’s like the pot calling the kettle all sorts of nasty names. Signing Lohse would be a mistake of the Pavano/Wright proportions. Unless your goal is too actually see the Yankees fall below the Bluejays, then no, Lohse would not be a wise move.

    6. Rich
      January 24th, 2008 | 8:12 am

      What Chris said.

    7. January 24th, 2008 | 8:50 am

      Tampa – yeah, I saw that.

      Others, FYI:

      2002-2007
      Pitchers with Seasons where
      GAMES STARTED >= 30
      INNINGS PITCHED >= 180

      T1 Javier Vazquez 6
      T1 Barry Zito 6
      T1 Jon Garland 6
      T1 Mark Buehrle 6
      T5 John Lackey 5
      T5 C.C. Sabathia 5
      T5 Carlos Zambrano 5
      T5 Freddy Garcia 5
      T5 Roy Oswalt 5
      T10 Matt Clement 4
      T10 Livan Hernandez 4
      T10 Johan Santana 4
      T10 Brian Lawrence 4
      T10 Jason Jennings 4
      T10 Kyle Lohse 4
      T10 Jason Marquis 4
      T10 Dontrelle Willis 4
      T10 Roy Halladay 4
      T10 Jake Peavy 4
      T10 Jeff Suppan 4
      T10 Brandon Webb 4

      Lohse is durable. Hey, I never said he was good – just someone to give you innings and starts. Considering the few innings that Mussina provides – see, he didn’t make this list – and the innings limits on the kids, I just thought, MAYBE, Lohse could be useful to the Yanks THIS YEAR. Hey, it’s just a spitball thought.

    8. mehmattski
      January 24th, 2008 | 9:16 am

      Jeff Weaver missed being on your list by 8 IP, and he’s a free agent too! Let’s go get him! Pile on the mediocrity! Hell, Livan Hernandez has pitched 200 innings in each of the last EIGHT years! Get it done, Cash!

    9. January 24th, 2008 | 12:05 pm

      So, when Mussina goes on the DL, and/or, when one of the kids needs to miss a start because of innings concerns, you guys are OK with Igawa getting the starts – as opposed to bringing in some like Lohse to have on hand?

    10. Andrew
      January 24th, 2008 | 12:41 pm

      Wow, Steve. Never – ever – again can you EVER criticize Cashman for bringing on board Carl Pavano, Or Jeff Weaver. If you stick by this reasoning that Lohse is actually a good idea, that line of criticism is completely off bounds for you – if you wish to maintain your credibility as a blogger.

      Kyle Lohse is a BELOW-AVERAGE pitcher. However, below-average pitchers are getting 4 years $10 million per on the market today. Lohse would be considered if the Yankees had absolutely no depth. But, guess what! Brian Cashman – oh yes, the dreadful, awful, Brian Cashman, has already thought ahead, and has plenty of options that are already better than Kyle Lohse! For the major league minimum! How about that, the Yankees no longer need to sign below-average pitchers to long term deals.

      But, what do you do? You go out and suggest that they do it! The EXACT thing you have criticized Cashman for!

      You really are a piece of work. I would suggest abandoning this post, or abandoning your Cashman-bashing. Or, ideally, both. They are not the better parts of your blog.

    11. January 24th, 2008 | 1:21 pm

      Weaver was a head case. Pavano was injury prone. As far as I know, Lohse is not a head case – and he’s not injury prone.

      You cannot put Lohse in the Weaver/Pavano class, IMHO.

    12. SteveB
      January 24th, 2008 | 1:22 pm

      This is a very bad idea.

    13. vocallytrnsfrmd
      January 24th, 2008 | 3:17 pm

      This could make sense, hopefully we can low ball him when he realizes that no one wants what hes asking for. My good friend Lee Sinins and I had a disagreement on this, but there is a lot of value to having a number of durable starting pitchers. I think Lohse is a better option than Mussina in the #5 and it gives you another guy with the potential to go 175+ innings. Plus, he was good prospect. Maybe (grasping at straws here) he surprises you with above average performance. You cannot deny the importance of having durability and depth in a starting rotation.

    14. butchie22
      January 24th, 2008 | 4:20 pm

      Lohse will be a disaster in the Bronx,he might give the Yanks innings but they will not be quality AL East innings.A Livan Hernandez type might be better than a KL type.Lohse wants around 10 million?The Yanks are already paying for that level of mediocrity from Mussina and Igawa.
      Bu Steve,it is good to worry,because the Yank fans should this year with this starting staff…inningswise that is .If 2 of the young three and either Wang or Pettite get injured then we can look forward to Karstens,Rasner,Igawa and Mussina?!?!?I understand your concern but Lohse is not the answer.

    15. Basura
      January 24th, 2008 | 6:45 pm

      I think Lohse is a better option than Mussina in the #5 and it gives you another guy with the potential to go 175+ innings. Plus, he was good prospect. Maybe (grasping at straws here) he surprises you with above average performance.
      ========================

      Unless you expect the Yanks to release Mussina you would then have both pitchers for this year and Lohse for 2009+

      He might have been a good prospect but since he’s been in the majors since 2001 he’s never been more than a mediocre pitcher at best. Hoping for success from someone who has consistently shown he won’t be successful is a strange strategy to take.

      If you want to set your sights to mediocrity then go for it. I’d rather keep bringing up some minor leaguers to see if anyone gets hot, there’s a better chance of success in that way.

    16. January 24th, 2008 | 9:52 pm

      Why? Why why why why why?

      Steven White could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost. Alan Horne could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost. Jeff Marquez could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost. Heath Phillips could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost. Chase Wright could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost. The list just keeps going.

      Lohse’s ability to give you 30 starts and 180+ IP only means that you’ll get to watch him suck for that much longer.

    17. January 24th, 2008 | 10:20 pm

      ~~~Jeff Marquez could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost. Heath Phillips could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost. Chase Wright could give you the same production for a fraction of the cost.~~~

      Do we know all this for fact?

    18. January 24th, 2008 | 11:11 pm

      ***Do we know all this for fact?***

      No, we don’t know this for a fact, not anymore than we know he can give the Yanks 30 starts and close to 200 IP. The point is that you can find someone to suck just as bad for a whole lot cheaper. And heck, if that guy breaks down, you can just grab the next minor league journeyman off the scrap heap.

      I don’t get it, this would be exactly the kind of move that you’ve bashed Cashman for in the past. Why not just bring back Aaron Small?

    19. January 24th, 2008 | 11:20 pm

      ~~~No, we don’t know this for a fact, not anymore than we know he can give the Yanks 30 starts and close to 200 IP.~~~

      4 times in the last 6 years, Lohse has had
      GAMES STARTED >= 30 & INNINGS PITCHED >= 180
      at the big league level. He’s 29. Because of this, I like the odds of him reaching 30+/180+ again.

    20. dan
      January 24th, 2008 | 11:51 pm

      We don’t know what kind of production the minor league guys will give the team, but I think we know exactly how badly Kyle Lohse will suck in the AL.

    21. Basura
      January 25th, 2008 | 5:39 am

      He’s 29. Because of this, I like the odds of him reaching 30+/180+ again.
      ——————-

      Yeah, 30+/180+ of bad pitching. Now that’s something I want to go to the bank with to begin the season with.

      That’s what they do at the track, they add weights to the Jockey to balance things out. Lohse is the added weight.

      And in your pissy words, I know it as FACT that Lohse will be mediocre at best.

    22. williamnyy
      January 25th, 2008 | 7:07 am

      If your argument was basically that Kyle Lohse would be a nice guy to sign to a cheap one year deal so he could hang out in the bullpen and make the 10-12 spot starts that might pop up during the year, you’d have a point. Instead, you are advocating the Yankees sign a retread like Lohse to a long-term deal and have him throw 180IP (which, for some reason, you see as a good thing).

      Mike Mussina IS a better option than Lohse right now anyway. Moose may have struggled for a stretch last season, but 2 of Lohse’s last 4 seasons were as bad or worse. When you factor in the divisions they played, I am not even sure Lohse’s ERA+ of 100 is much better than Mussina’s 87. At least Mussina does lend you some hope that he can give you a good stretch.

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