Yankees Softees?
Posted by Steve L. on February 6th, 2008 · Comments (14)
For many baseball fans, one of the more irritating traits that a ballplayer can have (on their favorite team) is being “soft” – despite being very talented. By “soft” it is implied that the player lacks “drive” and/or “mental toughness.” Some may offer that former Yankee Danny Tartabull and current Yankee Carl Pavano fit this profile. They had/have talent, but, they performed “soft” while in New York.
Related, here’s two questions for you:
1. Do you agree with the notion that a talented ballplayer can also be “soft”?
2. If yes, which past and present Yankees do you consider to be “soft”?
Thanks in advance for anything that you can share.
as I couldn’t comment on the last post for obvious reason I have to ask here…whats with this “sudden increase in readership”? Is it just cause of the coming season or is there more to it? Don’t forget the fans who’ve been with ya for a while now
and to answer your question I think that abreu is soft. Before everyone flames me, I want to say that I think abreu is good, but I think if he gave it his all he could be a superstar. I would also say manny is soft, imagine if he worked like a-rod what he could have been?
“I have to ask here…whats with this ‘sudden increase in readership’?”
Information on this will be provided at a later date. Thanks for asking.
1. Yes, I believe that baseball players, like all human beings, have varying degrees of resistance to adversity. Likewise, not all individuals (including ballplayers) are as motivated to strive for their best effort on all days. It’s normal and natural. Frankly, we fans forget this in ourselves and our peers and hold athletes to standards to which we often don’t hold ourselves. As if money should ever coerce a change in mental, physical, and emotional chemistry.
2. Having said that, I don’t think Carl Pavano suffers from “softness.” I think he’s simply an unlucky guy who can’t stay healthy. Based on his career injury history, the fact that he’s been hurt for his entire Yankee tenure should not come as a surprise to anyone. Beyond that, he’s a disagreable guy, unwilling to accomodate the team (40-man roster issue this year) and a guy that probably doesn’t have a great personality in terms of making friends. We perceive him as soft because he’s always hurt but I don’t know how he could possibly pitch with a busted shoulder, a bad elbow, and broken ribs. None of his injuries were faked. Pavano is a cautionary tale in why you should never sign pitchers with injury histories to huge contracts and expect big things from them.
As far as Manny goes, yeah, I think he’s soft. He plays when he feels like it and he jakes around when he’s not feeling like playing. But he’s no different than the rest of us that go to work and sometimes gamecast a day game all afternoon or spend countless hours on this blog talking baseball. Know what I mean?
Before everyone flames me, I want to say that I think abreu is good, but I think if he gave it his all he could be a superstar. I would also say manny is soft, imagine if he worked like a-rod what he could have been?
——————-
That’s the thing, how do we know that Abreu’s not giving it his all?
As for Manny (and other players as well), I’m sure there’s a lot going on in the background that we do not see. He, like Griffey, play the game so effortlessly, are so good, that they make it look a lot easier than it actually is. That doesn’t mean they aren’t working hard, it doesn’t mean they are soft, or whatever.
You can’t make it to this level, and you cannot survive at this level without “drive” or “mental toughness.”
Javier Vasquez and Kevin Brown were soft as Yankees. So was Hideki Irabu.
It’s funny how we think we can know something about a players personality by watching them on the field and catch 10-15 interviews over the course of the season. Sure, some guys will do something blatantly obvious to show you they work hard (like David Eckstein busting his ass down the 1st base line to the point where he looks like he’s being chased by wolves) or to show you that they don’t give a shit (most NBA players, for example). As for Abreu, and what I’m thinking will be a developing story with Cano, judge these guys by their numbers, not by the look on their face. Both have been accused of lolly-gagging because they don’t share the same demeanor as guys like Jeter and Aaron Rowand, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re trying any else.
As for Pavano, it’s hard to accuse someone of being soft who needs TJ surgery. In fact, didn’t he try to pitch with broken ribs? He’s more of a fool for getting into a car accident and an idiot for concealing it and a jerk for not taking a minor league deal than a softee for needed ligament replacement surgery in his elbow. Just my $.02
Eli Manning was viewed as soft 2 months ago, with no “fire” in his eye or intensity. Now the lack of fire is viewed as “cool under pressure”.
I think it’s the audience trying to look into something that may or not be there. As was written above, a player’s grace can be translated rightly or wrongly as his level of effort and/or softness.
I always thought others opinion of Abreu’s softness (no walls, no diving) could also be attributed to a lack of depth perception.
Regarding Abreu, as Stick once said, he should be taught to go back to the wall first, and then adjust to the ball from there.
I don’t see Kevin Brown as soft. Stupid and ineffective, yes; a jerk, sure; but the guy did try to go out there and pitch. He just wasn’t physically capable any longer. And frankly, Torre should’ve never given him the ball in that fateful game seven, but what are you gonna do?
As far as Pavano, who really knows? The rep seems to be justified, but on the other hand, he did lie about his one crash injury so that he could try to pitch through it. But all things considered, I’d say he’s soft and frankly a piece of garbage. Just the fact that he wouldn’t take that minor league deal because he was 11 days away from a full major league pension says it all. Guys need to look out for themselves to a degree, but if you don’t think you can make a roster for 11 days, come on.
I have never called a player soft before because I dont believe you can determine a player’s motivation just by what they do on the field. And I would have been prepared to defend Carl Pavano’s perceived softness (in spite of the fact that I think he is the worst FA signing by the Yanks ever) except that I remember last year the Yankee organization had him checked out by team doctors and an arm specialist and both opinions were that he didnt TJ surgery. Carl himself then went and got examined by not 1 but 2 more doctors until he could find someone who would give him the diagnosis he wanted to hear, which is that he needed TJ surgery.
Now I said before I dont like determing motivation but I really dont know what else can be said about a player, who so badly wanted to get TJ surgery that he went to at least 4 different doctors, other than the fact that he just didnt want to play anymore. And if that is true, which I dont know for sure, but it certainly appears that way, then there is no other way to characterize Pavano than “soft”.
And frankly, Torre should’ve never given him the ball in that fateful game seven..
————
Yes, but given the trust Torre had in his veterans, it wasn’t unexpected. Brown said he was able to go, and since he had prior postseason experience (Marlins & Padres), he got the nod. Both he and Vazquez struggled in their outings against the Sox. Mussina, Lieber & Duque (1 start that postseason, could imagine what his shoulder was like) were unavailable. Even Loaiza, who came over in the Contreras trade, and didn’t do anything worth mentioning, had thrown a couple of innings a couple of days earlier, and probably would not have been able to start.
Yankee fans are going to be pulling Pavano’s bones out of the ground in 100 years. I can’t think of someone who’s done less for the team generating more talk and dislike. It’s amazing how he went from beating us in the World Series to leaving a stain on us as a member of the team.
Kevin Brown was the least “soft” player in the history of baseball. He was psychotically competitive and would do anything he had to do to take the ball. Despite that last great year with the Dodgers, Brown’s body simply gave up on him when he got to the Yankees.
Raf and I have had this discussion before, but I still think giving Brown the ball in game seven was a fireable offense. Yeah, Vazquez wasn’t great (he wasn’t awful; he gave up a two-run home run in his last inning of work). But Brown was putrid — beyond awful. A total punching bag who couldn’t get out of the first inning in TWO previous starts against the Red Sox. Even if Vazquez repeated his last performance, it would have been better than Brown, who went out there with nothing and could barely get an out. He put the Yankees in a position where they had no chance to win.
Loaiza was one of the few guys who pitched well, and I think it’s obvious now that it should have been Vazquez starting the game with Loaiza backing him up. Loaiza threw four effective innings in Fenway (he gave up a walk-off hit, but 1 run over four innings is better than what Vaz and Brown did). And in that game seven he threw three more scoreless innings.
We can agree to disagree on this, but handing the ball to someone who so recently, in two starts, could barely get an out against a team in the most important game of the year just seems like a horrible decision. I would have preferred anyone to Brown.
Regarding Abreu, as Stick once said, he should be taught to go back to the wall first, and then adjust to the ball from there.
=======================
The wall stuff doesn’t bother me because most of his wall adventures are at the RF wall. I unscientifically think it could be depth perception (though he’s an excellent hitter) because he has such a slow reaction to any balls hit in front of him. So many bloops seem to fall in front of him I dread him in RF when Mariano is pitching.