• May 8th vs. The Indians

    Posted by on May 9th, 2008 · Comments (23)

    Now that I’m among that 15% of the population that Lee Elia ranted about a quarter of a century ago, I had a chance to watch, live, about 70% of this game.

    And, for the last 12 hours or so, I’ve been sitting on what I wanted to write about it – but, in the end, it keeps coming back to the same thing.

    Yes, this was a pretty big win for the team. You didn’t want to lose three in a row heading into a road game, in Motown, with Kei Igawa on the mound for you…because that’s how you start knocking on the door of a five-game losing streak. And, it was interesting to see just how much Paul Byrd and Mike Timlin have meant to Jason Giambi’s season this year.

    But, at the end of the day, this game comes to down to two things for me. First, the celebration of Clique de los Yanquis in the dugout – meaning Cano, Melky, Abreu, Betemit (and sometimes A-Rod) after Cano’s homerun. And, secondly, the Joba Chamberlain reaction after striking out David Dellucci.

    Let’s be honest here. As Yankees fans, if we were playing the Mets, and, during the game, Jose Reyes, Luis Castillo, Moises Alou, Ramon Castro and Angel Pagan were carrying on in the dugout – like Cano & Co. were in this game – after Reyes did something on the field, many of us would be seeing red over it. And, again, as Yankees fans, if we were playing the Red Sox, and, during the game, Manny Delcarmen reacted the way Joba did, after striking out some Yankee to end an 8th inning, we’d be on him afterwards like hair on soap.

    Therefore, as a Yankees fan, I wish that some of the vets on the team would get the attention of the youngsters (like Joba, Cano, Melky, etc.) and tell them “It’s great to be excited and to have passion – but, there’s a line on displaying it and you guys have crossed it. So, let’s pull back on it…understand?”

    O.K., go ahead, now, start telling me that I’m an old man and that “old school baseball” went away a long time ago…

    Comments on May 8th vs. The Indians

    1. WRT
      May 9th, 2008 | 7:51 am

      Old man! Old school baseball went away a long time ago!!

      Seriously though, given the circumstances, I don’t think this is that big a deal. Cano’s been miserable; it’s only natural that he and his good friends would be excited after he had a big game. If he were batting .325 with 10 homers and still celebrating that way, then yeah, you’d have a point. But I think in this case, anyone slumping that badly deserves to celebrate, and if the other team can’t handle it/doesn’t understand it, too bad.

      Similarly, Delucci just stole a game from us and beat Joba to do it. How else but “cathartic” to describe that K?

      That said, I do agree that Joba might think about toning it down a bit – especially with a 3 run lead.

    2. TurnTwo
      May 9th, 2008 | 7:54 am

      You’re an old man and that “old school baseball” went away a long time ago.

      No, seriously… people need to get over this.

      Isnt it refreshing to see a kid on this team wear his emotions on his sleeve? isnt it the energy and youthful competitiveness that we, as fans, have been talking about as part of the reason why Melky and Robby and Joba mean so much to this older, ‘veteran’-laden team?

      Its a game- let him have some fun, because I know when i see it, i enjoy it.

      and yeah, if Papelbon K’s ARod in a big spot and gives his diarrhea face scream i’ll get ticked off… but thats not because Papelbon is showing up ARod, it’s because ARod K’d out.

      and if you get K’d out like that and dont like to see Joba celebrate, then next time, dont K out in a big spot.

      i heard another point this morning on this; if Dellucci hit that HR in Cleveland, dont you think he’d have been celebrating as the crowd went nuts around the stadium? dont you think that he probably wouldve taken a curtain call, waived around his helmet, maybe? is that showing up the pitcher?

      and why is it that baseball players always get screwed with this need to be stoic on the field type attitude? When Tiger gives a fist pump after a big putt, do people get all over him? isnt he sticking it into the guy’s face he’s playing with that he can sink the big putt and his opponent cant?

      its all nonsense, and a waste of time. let them play!

    3. May 9th, 2008 | 8:53 am

      I don’t think the celebrations are a big deal. There’s a fine line between celebrating your success and taunting the other team, and I don’t think there is any doubt whatsoever that the Yankees were not taunting anyone.

      Baseball can use a little excitement and I think players showing emotion is fine as long as they’re not resorting to trash-talking and unsportsmanlike behavior.

      -Jeff
      http://pinstripers.blogspot.com

    4. Joel
      May 9th, 2008 | 9:05 am

      I would have knocked Dellucci on his ass with 2 outs and a 3 run lead, so as far as I’m concerned Joba was positively civilized.

      Seriously Steve, you (and Mike and the Mad Dog) have got to get over this stuff. In my opinion baseball players today are more sportsmanlike and professional both on and off the field than they ever have been.

      May they both rest in peace, but guys like Mickey Mantle (Francesa’s hero) and Billy Martin disrespected the game with their antics far more than a fist-pumping Joba or a dancing Cano.

    5. TurnTwo
      May 9th, 2008 | 9:16 am

      you know what other young stud had a lot of energy and enthusiasm, and then people got all over him because it was too over the top… and then after his manager squaleched it, his performance went down the crapper?

      Jose Reyes.

      and he hasnt been the same player since… now is it because he’s just hit a rut in his career development? probably moreso than anything ese…

      but can we definately say that at least a little part of it isnt because people who thought he wasnt playing the game ‘the right way’ told him he shouldnt be so exuberant on the playing field, and took away that something extra that made him a special player and someone really fun to watch? we cant say that for sure.

    6. May 9th, 2008 | 9:31 am

      [...] I concur on the Joba item. As far as Mussina…well…if the big game is against Boston, yeah, sure, I would agree. But, if the big game is against a line-up of young and aggressive batters, then, maybe, that’s a spot where Moose’s new M.O. would be a good match-up. So, for me, it’s really a contingency thing on Mussina. May 9, 2008 | Filed Under SportsNite Video Clip  [...]

    7. Rich
      May 9th, 2008 | 10:05 am

      Why do people (in this case I’m referring to the WFAN mediots) feel the need to express an opinion on everything? As someone else said, it’s not a big deal.

    8. Joel
      May 9th, 2008 | 10:11 am

      If Igawa blows up tonight, expect David Wells to arrive.

    9. mph2373
      May 9th, 2008 | 10:23 am

      I’ve been seeing fist pumping by pitchers for a while now. The last series against the Indians had Sabathia pumping his fist. Randy Johnson has been doing it his entire career.

      Who cares if Papelbon mugs for the cameras? Really? This is what we have to focus on?

      Can we just start a new catch phrase? “Just Joba being Joba!” I half expect Manny to pull out a chair and take a seat the next time he hits a home run.

      WHO CARES? Really! I agree with TurnTwo’s take. Weren’t we complaining that there wasn’t enough energy? If this is what it takes, than so be it.

      What? Are people going to want to hit him harder? That is absolute nonsense.

    10. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      May 9th, 2008 | 11:03 am

      I would have knocked Dellucci on his ass with 2 outs and a 3 run lead, so as far as I’m concerned Joba was positively civilized.
      *************************

      That is the most classless comment I have seen to date. You dust someone on his ass if he has shown you up NOT when he has taken your best and beaten you.

      It would have been interesting though if Joba had done that – I would guess a three to five game suspension would have happened. And that would not have been because “MLB hates the Yankees”.

      Its comments like that last one, which I’ve seen countless times on this site, that remind me why OnceIWasAYankeeFan.

    11. Raf
      May 9th, 2008 | 11:40 am

      I’m fairly indifferent to Joba’s celebrations. As mentioned before, if a player doesn’t like it, I suggest he doesn’t make an out.

    12. hopbitters
      May 9th, 2008 | 12:09 pm

      My personal leaning is toward old school thinking, but at the same time you have to accept the reality of the situation. People in general simply don’t act the same way they did in previous generations. I don’t think most of them do it to be rude. I think they just haven’t been in an environment where they’re expected to think about how their actions are viewed by others. You can see the same thing in the way people treat each other on this blog.

      In MLB, the situation is exacerbated because the league refuses to let the players settle things and move on and the media tries to turn every minor incident into a major one and that influences the reactions of both the players and the fans.

    13. antone
      May 9th, 2008 | 1:35 pm

      One time when I was 14, I was pitching and gave up a HR to a kid and he started break dancing as he got to home plate, popping and locking.

      Next time up I was thinking if I should drill him but decided to strike him out instead. haha.

      I think there is a generational gap when it comes to these things. Everyone’s personality is different and we shouldn’t judge these guys for their exuberance, not like it’s a crime. If someone doesn’t like it then don’t strike out/give up a HR.

      Not like this is football, you don’t see anyone pulling out props or doing special dances on the mound.

    14. Don
      May 9th, 2008 | 1:53 pm

      I’m with you Steve.

      Must every sport be reduced to the lowest common denominator? Joba with a meaningless strikeout, childish.

    15. Raf
      May 9th, 2008 | 2:14 pm

      In MLB, the situation is exacerbated because the league refuses to let the players settle things and move on.
      ————-
      MLB is a closed institution. The players have access to each other. If they want to settle it, they can.

    16. Raf
      May 9th, 2008 | 2:16 pm

      One time when I was 14, I was pitching and gave up a HR to a kid and he started break dancing as he got to home plate, popping and locking.
      ————
      Nowadays, that kid will be called out for unsportsmanlike conduct. He may be ejected at the umpire’s discretion.

    17. hopbitters
      May 9th, 2008 | 2:40 pm

      If they want to settle it, they can.

      -

      There’s a long tradition in baseball of settling things on the field that MLB always cuts off midstream with warnings and punishing the retaliators instead of the instigators, which just makes them more ticked off at each other. Players often can’t respond in the same game (or series) without an automatic ejection and things grow out of proportion as they fester.

    18. unfrozencavemanyankee
      May 9th, 2008 | 2:40 pm

      For years we had to hear from the media about how soulless and corporate the Yankees were in the Torre era, how they seemed to have no fun. I remember any number of such columns from the odious Selena Roberts and others of her ilk. Now that the Yanks have some young kids who play with natural and youthful exuberance they are also criticized for that. I have seen nothing from Joba and the others that has crossed the line into unsportsmanlike conduct. Let’s not turn Joba into T.O. or worse.

    19. Raf
      May 9th, 2008 | 3:29 pm

      Players often can’t respond in the same game (or series) without an automatic ejection and things grow out of proportion as they fester.
      ———
      Then respond after the game. Or before the next one. During BP. Take up the issue with the pitcher while he’s shagging flies, or warming up in the pen.

      There are ways of going about it. If they have issues, and want to settle it, they can.

    20. antone
      May 9th, 2008 | 4:46 pm

      Hmm wait a second now…wasn’t everyone blasting the Yankees for being lifeless a few days ago?

      Now they show some energy and everyone is blasting them for that?

      So which one is it?

      Baseball brings together different personalities and cultures and if this is how some of the players show their personality then I am all for it.

    21. hopbitters
      May 9th, 2008 | 6:32 pm

      There are ways of going about it. If they have issues, and want to settle it, they can.

      -

      Sorry Raf, but I just don’t see it happening that way for most players. They’re more or less a bunch of boys on a playground with the media and the fans jumping up and down behind them yelling “Fight! Fight! Fight!” They can settle it, amongst themselves, on the field, in about 15 seconds. Or a third party can come along and mete out some random “justice”, while the players involved don’t come to any reconciliation whatsoever and either feel vindicated by or even more bitter about the penalties imposed.

    22. dpk875
      May 9th, 2008 | 9:13 pm

      What C.C. did during the last series after striking out A-Rod and Duncan was worse than what Joba did during that game, maybe Dellucci should talk to his own teammate first if he has a big problem with it.

      I personally don’t have a big problem with it as long as Joba isn’t looking into the opposing dugout, or staring down the guy he just struck out.

    23. Raf
      May 10th, 2008 | 10:34 am

      They can settle it, amongst themselves, on the field, in about 15 seconds.
      ———-
      I know they can settle it. After the game.

      Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that a threat of a suspension or fine would prevent players from going after each other. I don’t think after his last incident that Jose Offerman would never charge a mound again if the situation didn’t call for it.

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