Love Mo, But, He’s No Grove
The Immaculate Inning suggests that Mariano Rivera is now the “Greatest Pitcher of All Time.”
This got me thinking. So, I went to the Complete Baseball Encyclopedia and asked it to give me all pitchers, since 1900, who have 1,000+ career IP and 100+ runs saved above average (RSAA). Once I had that list, I decided to sort them by RSAA per IP. Here’s the top twenty-five – including games pitched yesterday:
PITCHER IP RSAA RSAA/IP Mariano Rivera 1000.3 251 .251 Pedro Martinez 2718.3 500 .184 Lefty Grove 3940.0 668 .170 Brandon Webb 1235.0 196 .159 Roger Clemens 4916.6 732 .149 Johan Santana 1456.3 209 .144 Dan Quisenberry 1043.3 148 .142 Randy Johnson 3967.3 521 .131 Roy Oswalt 1534.6 198 .129 Carlos Zambrano 1335.0 169 .127 Hoyt Wilhelm 2253.0 282 .125 John Franco 1245.6 149 .120 Bruce Sutter 1042.3 123 .118 Roy Halladay 1729.0 204 .118 Roberto Hernandez 1071.3 126 .118 Greg Maddux 4948.6 554 .112 Lee Smith 1289.3 143 .111 Harry Brecheen 1905.3 210 .110 Tim Hudson 2017.3 222 .110 John Hiller 1242.0 136 .110 Walter Johnson 5914.6 643 .109 Joe Wood 1437.3 154 .107 Mel Parnell 1752.0 187 .107 Tommy Bridges 2826.6 301 .106 Curt Schilling 3261.0 346 .106
Now, that’s an interesting list, no? Makes for some interesting debate…
If you had to pick one pitcher, between Rivera, Martinez and Grove, for your team, who do you pick? Rivera for his one-inning dominance? Martinez for his one-season supremacy potential? Or, Grove for being the horse that he was?
And, note Brandon Webb’s placement. He’s pretty good, huh?
How about Dan Quisenberry finishing higher than Randy Johnson? Roberto Hernandez higher than Greg Maddux? John Hiller hugher than Walter Johnson? When you see that…it makes you ponder if being a relief pitcher is an easier way to excel – in terms of run prevention – than being a starter.
So, I dunno…
Yes, hands-down, Mariano Rivera is the greatest relief pitcher of all-time. But, it terms of being the greatest pitcher, period, of all-time…I think you have to go with Lefty Grove…all things considered.
Clearly, being a reliever is easier than being a starter- just ask John Smoltz. But even so, look at how much higher Rivera ranks in RSAA/IP than anyone else. In the category of doing the pitcher’s job- preventing runs from scoring- Rivera is much better than anyone else.
Sure, if you were going to build a team you might select Grove, but that’s changing the argument a bit. If you wanted one pitcher for one at bat to save the world, Space Jam style, you have to go with Mariano Rivera.
And that’s why he’s the greatest.
mehmattski -Well, as much as it kills me to say this…Jonathan Papelbon’s RSAA/IP mark is .320 – which is a lot higher than Rivera’s .251
But, Papelbum has only about 200 IP to his credit.
But, in your Space Jam setting, some might go for Papelbum…no?
It’s really a difficult comparison. The Big Train finished just shy of 80% of the games he started. I don’t know about Grove, but I’m guessing he wasn’t far off from that. I’d take either of those guys or Young in a heartbeat, but that doesn’t diminish Rivera’s value in today’s game.
I’ve seen Webb pitch a couple times live, including a one-hit gem a couple years ago. He’s an absolute joy to watch in person when he’s on a roll – games would average about an hour and a half if everyone pitched like him.