Those High Flyin’ Rays
Before this season started, back on February 19, 2008, in an entry here entitled “In The Rear View Mirror: The Tampa Bay Rays,” I wrote:
The Tampa Bay Rays have some interesting young talent under their control…
Some time around 2009 or 2010, there’s a chance that this talent could gel into a contending team.
What happens if this comes true in 2009 – as the Yankees continue to get older next year? What happens if the Tampa Bay Rays finish higher than the Yankees in the standings during the first year of the new Yankee Stadium?
Dollar-wise, it won’t mean much – Yankees Stadium will sell out every game in 2009 – as they probably will this season and in 2010 too. But, in terms of a mental blow, how much will it hurt the franchise, and its fans, to be beaten by Boston in 2007 and then by the Tampa Bay Rays in 2009?
Obviously, the Rays have exceeded my expectations – becoming a force in the league this season (rather than next year).
The whole topic of the Tampa Bay Rays, and their success this season, has probably not been discussed – at least here – as much as it deserves. But, better late than never, right?
As Yankees fans, how do you feel about the Rays now? Does it bother you that they are so far in front of the Yankees? Is it troublesome that the Rays “Big Three” of Scott Kazmir, Matt Garza, and Edwin Jackson have done what the Yankees “Big Three” of Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy were supposed to do this year? How do you feel watching Dioner Navarro and Carlos Pena, two players the Yankees let slip through their fingers, star for the Rays (at two positions, catcher and first base, where New York needs help)? Anything else about Tampa, and their season, and/or roster that bothers the Yankees fan in you?
I would probably put Shields ahead of Jackson in that Big 3. Also, none of those guys were rookies so I don’t see the comparison of those three pitchers to the Yankees 3 pitchers. Maybe because they are young but Kazmir(6 years), Jackson(6 years), Shields(3 years), Garza(3 Years), all have far more experience at the big league level.
Nothing bothers me about them. I like the way they play them game. I am surprised they are doing so well because I did not think they had enough offense this season but the addition of Longoria certainly helped and Hinske has done well for them too.
Also, I think we have to wait and see how they do next year because it’s no guarantee they will have the same success. Their upcoming schedule is pretty rough too. I’m actually interested in seeing how they finish this season up.
Anything else about Tampa, and their season, and/or roster that bothers the Yankees fan in you?
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No, not really. Hope the fans appreciate what they have, and watch their players come out and play.
From what you say of TB’s “big 3″ it would suggest that you give the Yanks’ “big 3″ time to develop; check out the service time of the TB pitchers…
As for Pena, I didn’t like it that he never got a call, but what’s done is done. The Navarro deal to land RJ, I’d make again.
You can’t be upset or bothered by what Tampa is doing – because that’s the way it’s supposed to work.
They’ve been in existence since 1998, and since then, their average draft slot has been No. 3.
They’ve used those picks to take current players Evan Longoria, BJ Upton and Rocco Baldelli. They used another (Delmon Young) to pluck Matt Garza (and Jason Bartlett) out of Minnesota.
They signed Pena who bloomed late into what prospect mavens thought he would be, Iwamura as an afterthought from Japan, stole Edwin Jackson and Dioner Navarro from the Dodgers, made due with a rogues gallery in right field and acquired as many hard-throwing righties as they could get their hands on for the bullpen.
They’ve done an excellent job of putting together the team from the outside, but the core of the squad has been assembled using the resources bestowed on teams that suck (high draft picks).
Deserves some mention that they’ve done all this with both Crawford and Upton having seasons well below what was expected from them.
Also, they still haven’t added David Price, who could end up being better than all their pitchers now.
Carlos Pena basically equals Giambi only with a much better glove, cheaper, and younger.
Sean, you are correct. This is what they SHOULD have accomplished by their 10th season in the league, given virtually the first pick in the amateur draft every single season AND millions of dollars from George Steinbrenner’s coffers to sign and develop that talent.
If it’s so easy then how do you explain the Royals and Pirates?
~~I would probably put Shields ahead of Jackson in that Big 3.~~
FWIW, I left him out because he’s 26 years old – and not a youngin’ like the others. Well, yeah, 26 is young…it’s just that the others are younger…
If it’s so easy then how do you explain the Royals and Pirates?
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The Rays spent the first part of their existence not knowing who they were. As a result, they wasted time with the Jose Canseco/Greg Vaughn experiments.
The Royals/Pirates took a while to adopt to changing situations. They’re further behind Tampa but should catch up in a few years’ time. Of course, it all boils down to effective management from the top. KC’s and Pittsburgh’s owners/GM’s were AWFUL for a long time. Now KC’s got a better GM and it looks like Pittsburgh does too.
But JSC’s point is well-taken: when you’re drafting in the top 3 every year for 10 years, at a certain point luck and skill will coincide and you’ll end up with BJ Upton, David Price, Tim Beckham, Evan Longoria, Delmon Young, etc.
How do you feel watching Dioner Navarro and Carlos Pena, two players the Yankees let slip through their fingers, star for the Rays (at two positions, catcher and first base, where New York needs help)?
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I don’t even blink an eye thinking about it. Getting RJ was the right move at the time, and it’s only a shame that it didn’t work out a bit better (Game 3 of 2005/2006 ALDS mainly). As far as Pena, eh…whatever. OPS+ 126 this year but last year looks like a career spike that no one should totally expect again.
Would I rather have Giambi? No. But what were the Yanks going to do? Eat $40M+ of Giambi’s deal to see what Pena might turn into? Not realistic…
“As Yankees fans, how do you feel about the Rays now? Does it bother you that they are so far in front of the Yankees? Is it troublesome that the Rays “Big Three” of Scott Kazmir, Matt Garza, and Edwin Jackson have done what the Yankees “Big Three” of Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy were supposed to do this year? How do you feel watching Dioner Navarro and Carlos Pena, two players the Yankees let slip through their fingers, star for the Rays (at two positions, catcher and first base, where New York needs help)? ”
This is the service time of the TB Big Three (going into this year):
Garza: 133 ML innings
Kazmir: 560.2 ML innings
Jackson: 280 ML innings over 5 seasons
Here’s the Yankees’ big 3:
Joba: 24 IP
Hughes: 70IP, 22 years old
IPK: 20 IP
Dioner Navarro: Yes I would love him back. But he was given up for RJ who was supposed to be an ace. The Rays picked him up for nothing too (Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall). But knowing you’re hatred for prospects, I can’t imagine your reaction to him hitting .227/.286 last year…
Carlos Pena: Every team in baseball passed on him. The Red Sox even picked him up after he opted out in ’06. Would I love to have him? Sure. Although last season was clearly a fluke, he’ll definitely be above average.
Oh yeah, the Rays had to suck for 9 years to get here.
“Oh yeah, the Rays had to suck for 9 years to get here.”
And, guess what, Brian Cashman wasn’t even their GM in any of those 9 years. Who’d a thunk that?
JSC and MJ, the Tampa example trumps what has happened in KC and Pittsburgh. Both organizations are run differently from Tampa and wise drafting throughout the years AND wise trades/free agents signings by Andrew Friedman during the Stu Sternberg administration has made this team a powerhouse a year early.
BTw, people are mentioning Steinbrenner’s money and the first round drafts? Listen, the Yankees are spending 209 million dollars this year (add Nady, Marte and Pudge and that goes up to 218) before being pro rated. The Yankees have to play other teams that are somewhat competitive,no? Other teams need to play somewhat well to draw people to the park. Remember the first half of 2007? It looked like the Yanks were gonna be just like those teams that “Steinbrenner supports”… an empty stadium with all but the diehard. Or does everybody want the Yanks to be the Globetrotters and every other team to be the Generals? And the draft? I’m saying this for what seems like the millionth time on this board. The Yankees have the financial ability to pay over slot to get players (bonus draftees) that other teams could only dream of getting. Boston is the only other team that can semi-afford to do this. So please don’t throw the fact that the Rays have gotten the first round draft for years, because the Yanks can literally buy bonus babies left and right if they wanted to. Also according to what I’ve heard the Yankees don’t strictly adhere to the rules( this paying over slot is done illegally) regarding the slot and abiding by the rules.
Hall of fame you hit the nail on the head with Navarro and Pena. The Yankees didn’t have room for Pena and the Sox didn’t really have a need to utilize him later that year either, so off he went after the season.
Teams like the Rays endure years of futility to get where they are now. That’s not an option for Yanks, Sox, Mets, Angels, etc.
Knowing which prospects will develop is partly luck.
And other than being pissed about the Yanks probably out of the playoffs this year, I think the Rays’ story is great for the game.
TB is a great story and an example of how parity SHOULD work. But comparing their ‘Big 3′ to ours? Come one Steve… try that in 2010. Although Joba, with a career 2.15 ERA and 2008 2.63 ERA is not that bad, eh?