Jeter bats 2nd and A-Rod bats 4th and you ask for different things from the 4th hitter in the middle of lineup.
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You ask both to get on base. Doesn’t matter where in the lineup they hit, their job is to get on base and to eventually score.

Just like pitchers and their “roles.” Doesn’t matter what their role is, it’s to get outs.

Butchie…my point is that this Yankees team even though flawed would be a lot better simply if A-Rod was peforming the way other stars around the league are and if Giambi was moved out of the 5th spot. The young players, etc. is a whole different discussion. I’m just focusing on what they have right now, this season.

Antone, there are a lot of hypothetical ifs there. If Vladie, the Hebrew Hammer Braun, or Papi were on the Yankees then fine. They were drafted AND products of other teams. In addition, they aren’t playing in NY. It is a tough place to play, IMO tougher than Boston or Philly so who knows how they would produce. One of the Yankee problems is that they have no in-house solutions for Giambi and Arod. Where are the position player kids to replace these guys?

IN the past, Arod wasn’t that bad with RISP. This year he has gone down in that category along with St Derek.
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Jeter hits .315 this season with RISP.

Once again, Jeter bats 2nd and A-Rod bats 4th and you ask for different things from the 4th hitter in the middle of lineup. Same thing with Giambi in the 5th spot.

Check these guys out with RISP this season(AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS):

PUJOLS: .311/.524/.567/1.091
MANNY: .342/.490/.579/1.069
MORNEAU: .371/.481/.621/1.102
YOUKILIS: .363/.433/.605/1.038
ORTIZ: .352/.451/.670/1.122
HAMILTON: .325/.383/.636/1.019
VLAD: .295/.406/.527/.933
BRAUN: .308/.361/.569/.930
BERKMAN: .371/.513/.603/1.116
QUENTIN: .322/.441/.574/1.015
SIZEMORE: .305/.472/.621/1.093

Now look at A-Rod and Giambi:

AROD: .246/.400/.413/.813
GIAMBI: .203/.342/.314/.656

Their stats aren’t even close to the other best players. Now ask me if I’m delusional when I say that the Yankees lineup would be a lot better with one of these other STARS in their lineup instead of A-Rod and Giambi. When your 4 and 5 hitters hit like they have with RISP, it’s tough to score runs. With one of these other guys in the lineup, I bet the Yankees would be right up there with Boston at worst.

The comparisons be/tw Jeter and ARod are unwarrented. Jeter is not, and never was, an offensive powerhouse. No 30 hr season, no 100 RBI season; in short, he’s not a cleanup hitter and that’s OK. His job is to get on base, score runs, provide the occasional pop, steal a base or two, and provide leadership. Sure, he’s not having a great season, but the offense was never intended to revolve around him. ARod’s role is entirely different. Think of it this way: would you compare stats be/tw Lugo and ManRam? Pedroia and Oritz? Ekstein and Pujols? Orlando Cabrerra and Vlad Guerrero? That’s why so many of us are hard on Alex. He has increadibly high standards to reach be/cs he’s often called The Best Player In Baseball. So often, he doesn’t even come close. Worse yet, he seems to perform at his lowest level when the pressure is highest.
Let’s hope he has a better game tonight.

John, I think that jeter is right behind Lyle Overbay for most GIDPS. To the Jeter faithful, that last World Series win was in 2000. A lot of things have happened,since then. The Red Sox have won twice in the last 4 years and they might repeat this year. Since then, another shortstop Eckstein has two, one in 2002 and 2006 so do I get to deify or canonize Eck,too?

Seriously, Arod is blamed for the plague by Yankee fans but he is only one piece of the puzzle. Captain Overrated Jeter is another piece but more emblematic of the delusion some fans are under. Jeter’s range has diminished and his “clutch” hitting is down this year. For the mate , who said that clutch doesn’t exist (like Bill James erroneously claimed) watch Big Papi and Manram for the last 4 years vs Arod . Supposedly, Arod is a big late and tight hitter like Papi BUT the perception has clouded reality until now. IN the past, Arod wasn’t that bad with RISP. This year he has gone down in that category along with St Derek.

What a horrid discussion.

Give me a team A-Rods and I’ll smoke the team of Jeters in 90% of the 7 game series played.
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Great..show me that team and I’ll sign up for it…but good luck making that happen!

What a horrid discussion.

Give me a team A-Rods and I’ll smoke the team of Jeters in 90% of the 7 game series played.

It is a sad measure of how disappointing this season has been that we are arguing over who has hurt the Yankees more: A-Rod or Jeter. The way the Yanks have hit this year, there is an ocean of blame to divide.

I have been commenting on Jeter’s propensity to hit into DPs since before the ASG. He was on pace to break Winfield’s Yankee season record. Given the GiDP pace A-Rod has been on lately, he might catch Jeter. Both have failed to meet expectations based on their history. If I were forced to say who was a bigger disappointment, I’d say A-Rod. But I have more confidence he may come back next year with another monster year. Not so sure about Jeter.

I agree with TurnTwo regarding September call ups. I am not counting on their performances being reliable predictors of next year – I just want a reason to watch the games.

Going into this season, I was doubtful we’d make the playoffs but excited about watching young players come up to play, with the expectation that many would fail. I hoped that if the team was failing, it did so before the trading deadline. Unfortunately, our mid July burst got us close enough to think we had a chance and made us buyers not sellers at the break.

So instead of a real rebuilding year where we really found out what talent we had down on the farm and cleared out some deadwood, or a real run at the playoffs, we end up with neither. So unless Cashman is afraid that bringing up the young ones in September will reveal their shortcomings and hurt their trade value this winter, I’d like to see a lot of Corey Ransom and no Jason Giambi. A lot of Brett Gardner in center, Nady in right and no Bobby Abreu. And if IPK/PH/Joba are healthy, let them get better in the majors next month with no must-win pressure.

Apart from a handful of games after we had cliched home field advantage in the great years, the Yanks haven’t played pressure free games since 1993.

Joel, the Yanks don’t look better than the RedSox or Twins right now. The team Boston put together has a lot of scrappy roleplayers/kids who play the game correctly whereas the Yankees have a bunch of aging and underachieving players swinging for the fen should have watched that Boston vs Toronto game on Sunday(which I believe was stolen from the Jays)…. the Boston kids in the field went after the ball in the field with a sense of urgency. With the addition of Bay and the subtraction of Drew and Manram, their outfield seems more athletic and more energetic.