Is Girardi Wrong Man For Yanks Helm?
Back on October 25, 2007, I wrote:
…with Joe Girardi you get the tactical-edge seeking of Billy Martin, the ensured preparedness of Buck Showalter, and, the politically correct demeanor of Joe Torre – all rolled into one. There’s really not much more that you can ask a manager to have, in my opinion, in terms of skills and talent.
And, I wrote that, then, because I believed it to be true. However, 45 games into this season, on May 21, 2008, I questioned as to whether or not I was correct with those thoughts last year on Girardi. At that time, I wrote:
…have we seen any of these three qualities from Joe Girardi? Was I wrong about his ability to bring these things to the table this season?
Now that we’re almost at the end of this season, I’m beginning to think that Joe Girardi is, indeed, over his head and not the correct man to motivate and lead this group of Yankees players. This is not to say that I don’t think Joe could be a successful manager with a team like the Oakland A’s or Pittsburgh Pirates. Actually, those might be better situations for someone like him – now.
And, this is more about the “job” of managing the Yankees, and all that stuff, than it is about Girardi as a man, etc. I still admire and respect Joe Girardi as a person – and truly like the way that he goes about carrying himself and living his life. In fact, if you told me that my 4-year old son would someday grow up to be a man like Joe Girardi, and/or, that someday my 6-year old daughter would marry a man like Joe Girardi, I would be fine with that…and then some.
Then again, maybe the Yankees will change over half of their starting players next season and get some players that fit better into what Girardi is trying to do here? Maybe that would work better for him? Or, maybe if Girardi had a decent back-end of a starting rotation, he’d look better in terms of managing his games and dealing with the media afterwards? To be honest…I’m not sure.
But, in any event, now, for sure, I do know this: The Joe Girardi experience that we’ve seen this season as Yankees fans was not the one that I expected coming into this season. And, because of that, I think it’s fair to wonder if Joe Girardi is the wrong man to lead this Yankees team.
has girardi made one good managerial move this yr? has he made one move that you were like “wow”. i don’t think so. hes been fairly terrible.
i mean come on. this is a team with talent all over the place even with the injuries and he couldn’t get them going.
his in game stuff has been brutal. its like he doesnt have any instincts or guts.
has he made one move that you were like “wow”. i don’t think so. hes been fairly terrible.
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In fairness, is there any other manager out there in baseball that “wows” fans with his dazzling tactical genius? Baseball isn’t a hard game to manage, especially when you’re not dealing with platoons and such. The Yanks more or less know which players to start every day and Girardi is a color-by-numbers guy, just like every other manager in the game. Baseball’s 162 game routine lends itself to that conventional approach.
Would Torre have done better in New York in 2008? No idea. My guess is that he’d have done some things better and some things worse. But I feel that way about all the “geniuses” too: Tony LaRussa, Jim Leyland, Bobby Cox, etc.
Here’s the bottom line: I endorsed Girardi’s hiring and I thought he’d be a good replacement for Torre. He wasn’t tied into the sentimentality of a Mattingly (or the complications involved with firing Mattingly down the road) and had the more fiery demeanor that I thought the team would benefit from after a dozen years with the more laid-back Torre. Am I pleased with how the season turned out? No, not really. But I don’t think it’s a reflection of Girardi’s job. Between injuries, an offense that has grossly underperformed, a pitching staff that has been mediocre, and some bad luck, I don’t think even Casey Stengel would’ve come out on top. Managers have very little to do with wins and losses.
I didn’t really like the way he handled the bullpen at times this year. I thought he would be a little more modern in terms of playing the game but I felt like we basically have a young Joe Torre now…and the “bad” version of Torre not the earlier version.
~~Between injuries, an offense that has grossly underperformed, a pitching staff that has been mediocre, and some bad luck, I don’t think even Casey Stengel would’ve come out on top. Managers have very little to do with wins and losses.~~
MJ – aren’t those, almost, the exact words that your boy, Hank Stein, was quoted as saying two weeks ago?
MJ – aren’t those, almost, the exact words that your boy, Hank Stein, was quoted as saying two weeks ago?
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Certainly possible. Truth be told, I’ve been tuning Hank out as much as I can. But if he said those words then I agree with him.
I really don’t know who could’ve made a difference this year. I will certainly admit that some of Girardi’s moves haven’t appealed to me. But do we think those moves cost us 20 games? Or more like 4-5? Because we’re not missing the playoffs for 4-5 games and that’s kind of where I see Girardi’s culpability at right now. If he lost more than 4-5 games, someone, please let me know.
I don’t think Joe’s over his head. He just picked the wrong year to become Yankee manager.
I don’t think Joe’s over his head. He just picked the wrong year to become Yankee manager.
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Couldn’t agree more. That’s the best way of putting it.
Just like when Steve McCroskey picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue?
I’m really surprised that in ten posts no one has brought out the possibility that Girardi’s clenched jaw intensity isn’t conducive to bringing a team back from adversity the way Torre’s steady-as-she-goes confidence was. I’m not saying that Torre is the reason those Yanks teams came back and that Girardi is the reason this team didn’t – but isn’t this the biggest difference between the teams? They all had injuries and under-performance from some key players.
Isn’t it at least possible that Girardi’s approach isn’t as effective as Torre’s, and that he bears more responsibility than Lil’ Hank is willing to assign?
…Girardi’s clenched jaw intensity isn’t conducive to bringing a team back from adversity the way Torre’s steady-as-she-goes confidence was.
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Overrated. The biggest difference between the teams is about 200 runs scored.
Isn’t it at least possible that Girardi’s approach isn’t as effective as Torre’s, and that he bears more responsibility than Lil’ Hank is willing to assign?
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Possible? Yes. But you know as well as I that managerial approach doesn’t mean much. Managers of all styles have succeeded and failed in MLB. It’s all about the players.
For the last few years (since 2004), the Yanks have been playing with fire regarding injuries and ineffectiveness. It was only a matter of time before it would finally catch up to them. Looks like this is the year.
“Just like when Steve McCroskey picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue?”
And Cigarettes and Amphetimines(sp)….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOIm9J3Sm7c
Once was, I highly doubt that Girardi has resulted in these players hitting so badly. He doesn’t go up to bat for them with men in RISP. I know that Girardi wears his emotions on his sleeves a bit, but so what? Are these girly men? They are in the big leagues and should be able to take it. Except maybe for Arod and Cano, they are emotional cupcakes…..
Torre is not doing the greatest job in the world in a division where the crappy Rockies are somewhat of a factor! He basically is heading a .500 team that should be much better than that with adding Blake, Manny and Maddux.
Raf, I agree with the soft start syndrome, it finally got to them now. Although, I felt that their pitching was very weak relative to Toronto and Boston. I kinda envisioned a third place finish or year off, specifically because Cash put in the two rookies pitchingwise. And who thought that Tampa would bust out this year? Maybe in 2009,but not now so the situation is worse than I had thought it would be.
Girardi’s clenched jaw intensity isn’t conducive to bringing a team back from adversity the way Torre’s steady-as-she-goes confidence was.
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Overrated. The biggest difference between the teams is about 200 runs scored.
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You’re quick to reject how a relaxed approach can be conducive to performance and how an intense, uptight manager might not help create a relaxed atmosphere.
I’d agree that the effects are at the margins but I have no doubt that the team would have had a better chance of overcoming their problems if Torre were still manager.
>> but I have no doubt that the team would have had a better chance of overcoming their problems if Torre were still manager. >>
And get trounced in the ALDS *again*. Perhaps Torre is a better guy for the long haul of a regular season…?
I also think Girardi needs to throw out a “we stink” every once in a while to the press. The whole “Captain Positivity” routine must wear thin with certain guys sometimes…
I’d agree that Girardi’s press relations leave a lot to be desired. A “Playoffs?” rant might have helped, who knows, but his secretiveness reached absurd extremes. He shouldn’t announce that Marte has some soreness and will probably not pitch for a week or so, but after the fact, why not just admit it? Why not say, “Damaso didn’t feel right but we didn’t feel he needed to miss 15 days and now he feels better and as you saw, he’s throwing the ball well again” instead of acting as though he was never hurt?
I wasn’t always pleased with the in-game decisions Francona has made but watching the way he treats his players and deals with the press, I’m convinced he’s the best “big-market” manager around. He’s great at dealing with the distractions, and now that Manny is gone, I think the clubhouse is more united than ever because there’s no longer a situation of different rules for different players.
I’d agree that the effects are at the margins but I have no doubt that the team would have had a better chance of overcoming their problems if Torre were still manager.
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I have doubts. At the end of the day, the players have to perform, no matter who’s the manager. They haven’t for whatever reason, and that’s why they’re in the position they are in now.
Raf, I agree with the soft start syndrome, it finally got to them now. Although, I felt that their pitching was very weak relative to Toronto and Boston.
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That’s because it is, and has been since Pedro was in Boston.
The Yanks weren’t built around pitching, they were built around their offense. Their pitching has performed about the same last year, the offense hasn’t.
I’m convinced he’s the best “big-market” manager around.
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Winning can convince you of anything. In a few years if Boston isn’t winning anymore, you’ll be just as convinced that Tito’s time is passed.
That’s why I don’t buy the whole Torre/Girardi personality contrast stuff.
I have doubts. At the end of the day, the players have to perform, no matter who’s the manager. They haven’t for whatever reason, and that’s why they’re in the position they are in now.
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I agree that they would be at the some place with Torre as they are now, but only becase Girardi has managed like Torre would have and that’s not why he was brought in as manager. I really see no difference between the last few years of Torre and Girardi this season. I think that is the most disappointing thing about Giradi.
No way the Yanks are in 4th place under Torre. The team never looked this bad, for this long, under his leadership. His teams reflected his personality: understated intensity. Yes, it’s mostly about the players, but how many of the players really enjoy playing under Girardi? How many have defended him? Hearing any great things about the Yankee clubhouse?
But hey, look on the bright side: there won’t be any embarrassing 1st round exit this year.
No way the Yanks are in 4th place under Torre.
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Sure, why wouldn’t they? With the regression of Cano, Melky & Jeter, as well as missing Matsui & Posada (the latter meaning giving more AB’s than necessary to Molina), it’s not surprising that the Yanks are doing as poorly as they have.
They may not have been a 4th place team, but that could reasonably be argued as TB & maybe TOR doing better than anticipated.
You’re quick to reject how a relaxed approach can be conducive to performance and how an intense, uptight manager might not help create a relaxed atmosphere.
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Is there any evidence that a “relaxed” or any other atmosphere has an impact on the performance of a team?
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His teams reflected his personality: understated intensity.
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This team has the understated down.
[...] that the Yankees should hire Joe Girardi to lead their team. Then, last year, in May, and again in September, I questioned if I made a mistake, or not, with that [...]