Young Ones, Big Game, Out Of The Chute
Here’s a fun little list via Baseball-Reference.com’s Play Index Pitching Game Finder.
It’s the 14 times, since 1956, that a pitcher, aged 21-years or younger, within his first 5 big league appearances, has started a game and went at least 6 innings while allowing just 3 baserunners or less:
Games Link to Individual Games +-----------------+-----+-------------------------+ Kerry Wood 1 Ind. Games Lee Tunnell 1 Ind. Games Frank Tanana 1 Ind. Games Wayne Simpson 1 Ind. Games Brett Myers 1 Ind. Games Clay Kirby 1 Ind. Games Philip Hughes 1 Ind. Games Roy Halladay 1 Ind. Games Zack Greinke 1 Ind. Games Chris George 1 Ind. Games Alan Foster 1 Ind. Games Mark Fidrych 1 Ind. Games Matt Cain 1 Ind. Games Jeremy Bonderman 1 Ind. Games
If anything, I believe this list leads to a school of thought that suggests a very young pitcher, having an excellent game at the big league level, in one of his first few starts, does not indiciate anything – positive or negative – with respect to his long-term fate in the major leagues.
For every Roy Halladay on this list, there’s a Lee Tunnell. For every Frank Tanana there’s a Chris George, etc.
Think about that, today, every time you hear someone bring up Phil Hughes’ May 1, 2007 start against the Texas Rangers. The fact that Hughes pitched well in that game – allowing just 3 baserunners in 6.3 IP, means nothing in terms of forecasting his future as a big league pitcher.
All the more reason why your negativity is so perplexing (besides the “I hate him because he blogs” thing). He’s 22 years old. Give the kid a chance to grow and show us what he can do. Writing him off right now is as stupid as annointing him the future best pitcher in MLB history. And while none of his so-called apologists have dubbed him that, you (and other haters) have clearly written him off for all of his “transgressions” committed in under 100 MLB innings.
PS – Ben Sheets got hurt last night. I’ll bet no one saw that one coming.
All the more reason why cheap, young, homegrown talent is so important. Imagine if that had been on our watch?! $15M down the toilet right there.
MJ – just because I have an opinion on Hughes, I’m a “hater”?
Or, is it because my opinion on Hughes is different from yours that I’m a “hater”?
I don’t mean to single you out. But, I get this all the time here. People say I’m unfair to Hughes and being a “hater.” Yet, are those same people also not being fair to me, and “hating” me just because my opinion on Hughes does not match theirs?
Maybe it would just be easier if everyone just told me what they wanted to hear and they I could write the same thing and make them happy? Geez.
I don’t hate you, Steve. Far from it. I think you know that.
But I think you hate Hughes. I mean, you’ve even admitted he “rubs you the wrong way” and that this feeling is unrelated to his pitching. So even if “hate” is too strong a word, you’ve admitted that you dislike something about him and I think it’s not off the mark for me to say that your off-field distate for him all too often bleeds into your objectivity (or lack thereof) when it comes to Hughes.
FWIW, if I met Phil Hughes, in person, I would offer him my hand and say hello. I don’t hate the guy. He’s not an evil person. And, he’s never done anything ill towards me.
My take on him pertains only towards his performance on the field and his status as a pitching prospect.
That’s all I’ll say for now. Gotta run – I’ll be off-line for the next 7 hours. Play nice.
My take on him pertains only towards his performance on the field and his status as a pitching prospect.
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Except that you’ve said many times that there’s just “something” about Hughes that irks you. And you’ve implied — if not openly stated — that this “something” is a personality thing and not a pitching thing.
Stop trying to make this so personal Steve. I wouldn’t think this is necessary but when people use the word “hater” they don’t actually mean you hate the person as in you despise him and you’d spit on the guy if you met him.
To hate on is to unfairly criticize a guy. People who have not yet given up on Hughes, as insane as we obviously are, think your criticisms of him are unfounded. You base your dislike for him (as a pitcher, not as a person) on bad vibes you get from him. You use something like the fact that you can’t take too much from early successes of young pitchers to downplay any enthusiasm about outings that he has pitched well in, yet at the same time ignore this fact when evaluating any of these starts that go badly.
You also lump anyone who thinks that it is possible that Hughes could be a very good starting pitcher for his career into the mythical Hughes Apologists Organization, or whatever you call it. You make it sound like anyone who defends him is also constantly saying things like “Phil Hughes is the greatest pitcher alive, he will be our Ace for the next 20 years, he will throw fastballs with such cutting action that they will slice cleanly through opposing hitters’ bats like chainsaws, curveballs that move so gracefully that they won’t fool batters as much as they will hypnotize them into a lull of both utter confusion and awe…” and so on.
None of that is true. We just rationally observe his minor league numbers, his repertoire, and his age, and we see potential to be a very good pitcher. You observe him and you feel bad vibes, you see a bad month in the first year that he started the season with the team, and you’re certain we’ve got the next Aaron Sele on our hands.
It is not that we know for sure that he will be great. We think he could be and we think there’s no reason to give up on him at 22. It is the fact that you for no good reason think you know for sure that he will be mediocre that rankles us.
Meanwhile, check the minor league stats for Lee Tunnell, Wayne Simpson and Chris George…
Not much there to get excited about