*sigh*

You forget Lowell was a salary dump by the Marlins, and and has been league average 2 out of the 3 years he was with the Sox.

Matt Clement pitched 2 years with the Sox, both below league average.

Lugo and Edgar Renteria were terrible acquisitions. So was Julian Tavarez.

Speaking of nonsensical logic, what is your point regarding the Jays? The reason the Yanks finished where they did is because of the offense. They underperformed at C (Posada injured), 2b (Cano’s regression), 3b (ARod injured), SS (Jeter injured), CF (Melky’s suckiness), & DH (Matsui injured).

THAT’s the reason the 4th place Jays got within sniffing distance of the Yanks.

I’m glad you acknowledge the Jays pitching, but how bout they not finish double digits in the GB column before they enter the equation?

Did you even take a look at the link I provided?

MJ, I’m not mistaken I’m right. The REd Sox and the Mets trail the Yanks in revenue, that’s what I said. That is a true statement. The Yanks made 400 mill this year, while the Sox made 230 mill. Next year the Yanks will supposedly make 800 mill from the new Stadium. So they will make what more than 3 times the value. AS for the debt equity etc. YOu mean to tell me that Werner and Lucchino actually own their piece outrightly? Only 15th? Spare me, that is enough so that the team is not making pure gravy.

MJ, you totally lose me on the “mistakes”. Lugo is injured right now, so how does he equate to Igawa? Matt Clememnt was injured for the duration of his tenure with Boston and I remember him pitching decently in his first year with Boston, so another injury like Pavano with the Yanks. Lowell is a mistake? Lowell was being courted by the Yanks last year to play first, what are you talking about? He got injured this year. He was MVP of the World Series last year and got a fat contract from the Pox. MJ, the Yanks spent over 50 million for Igawa AND his major league tenure was terrible and he is pitching in the minor leaugues. THAT IS A MISTAKE! You have to be kidding me on both counts, but Igawa is a big black hole that hasn’t done jackshit for the Yanks. The last time I checked Lugo and Lowell have Rings, unlike Giambi, Mussina, Arod,Cano and Co. If I used your nonsencical logic , then Posada is a mistake! Nice try , no cigar.

Raf, the Bluebirds of the Great White North have no lethal hitters, just look up and down the Yankee lineup. Damon, Jeter, Arod, Matsui, Giambi to name a few that actually have great production and are feared hitters. Wells, Rios, Rolen are chump change in comparison. Did they even have someone who hit 20 homers? To say that the Yanks underachieved is an understatement!

Raf, not hardly look at the result the last two years for Toronto.
——-
Problem is, JP’s been there since fall of ’01.

They are a team that has had a horrific offense, yet they only came in 3 games behind the Yankees.
——-
You know why they came in 3 games behind the Yanks? Because the Yankees potent offense scored 200 runs less than they did a year prior. The Yankee offense PLAYED DOWN to the Jays’ level.

http://tinyurl.com/54ez88

I slag on JP all the time BUT not on pitching, he has built up a great pitching staff that is almost entirely homegrown with the exception of AJ and Ryan.
————-
Which was good enough for a 4th place finish. Bravo, Bravissimo!

Can you imagine what the team would look like if they spent what Detroit did this year(140 million dollars)?
———-
About the Tiggers payroll;
07: $95.1M
08: $137.7

The salary jump is more relevant than the total cost. Teams are constructed differently, have different needs and such.

From what I understand, they didn’t develop Wang and that’s the least I know.
———-
?

The time Wang spent @ Staten Island, Trenton, Columbus don’t count? He spent 4 years in the minors…

MJ the Red Stockings have relatively small pockets compared to the Yankees. The owners are paying off the debt servicing for buying the team AND the repairs for Fenway. They along with the Mets are still behind the Yanks in revenues, so they have to rely more on the draft than free agents. In some way, that moneyball philosophy married with smart drafting has chumped the Yankees. The Red Sox can’t absorb a mistake like Igawa, so they have to get it right the first time.
————————
You’re mistaken on the business points. Forbes has the Red Sox ahead of the Mets, and only trailing the Yankees in terms of revenues. Further, they had only the 15th highest debt/value ratio.

http://tinyurl.com/4sq7dn

The Red Sox can’t absorb a mistake like Igawa, so they have to get it right the first time.
————————
Not true. They’ve easily absorbed Julio Lugo, Matt Clement and others over the years. They are currently absorbing Mike Lowell.

They’ve got nearly as deep pockets and can afford the same stupid mistakes (and they’ve made plenty of them on Theo’s watch). The point is simply that they have been better at the drafting and developing than the Yanks have.

Raf, not hardly look at the result the last two years for Toronto. They are a team that has had a horrific offense, yet they only came in 3 games behind the Yankees. Look at the relief and starting numbers for the Jays for the last two years. Long and Damon have said on many different occassions that they have the best 1-12 in the AL. I slag on JP all the time BUT not on pitching, he has built up a great pitching staff that is almost entirely homegrown with the exception of AJ and Ryan.

Raf what you don’t get that DJ does is that the Yanks do have deep pockets so that they can retain successful players. Can you imagine what the team would look like if they spent what Detroit did this year(140 million dollars)? Try 5th place.

The international draft? UNh?? Those players aren’t even in the same mix as other draftees. From what I understand, they didn’t develop Wang and that’s the least I know. It’s OK be a Yankee homer and let the Red Pox fufill the Yankee mission statement. The last pitcher they developed before Joba of any note was Pettitte.

MJ the Red Stockings have relatively small pockets compared to the Yankees. The owners are paying off the debt servicing for buying the team AND the repairs for Fenway. They along with the Mets are still behind the Yanks in revenues, so they have to rely more on the draft than free agents. In some way, that moneyball philosophy married with smart drafting has chumped the Yankees. The Red Sox can’t absorb a mistake like Igawa, so they have to get it right the first time.

Lastly, the Yankee mission statement is to win the World Series every year. Just when is the last time they accomplished that goal? 2000 and they have spent over a billion dollars since that time for what? To fill the coffers of Yankee INC or to win a championship. Evidently the former because that mission statement goes to the wayside. Yeah, I know that they are putting the money back into the business, BUT they are not spending that prodigious amount of cash wisely.

Yes because we have deep pockets. If we didnt have deep pockets, I would be very scared.
————————-
Boston does too. And if they continue to develop talented, cost-controlled players as they have been doing over the past several years, it won’t matter how much money the new Yankee Stadium can print, the Red Sox will still be in better shape.

I’m one of Steve’s “Cashman apologists”
——-
I just like to argue

Yes because we have deep pockets. If we didnt have deep pockets, I would be very scared.

Raf, like I’ve said before about Ricciardi, he is an idiot savant when it comes to pitching.
———–
http://danjulien.atspace.com/ricciardi.htm
Hardly…

My broader point is that the Yankees still have the biggest drafting and payroll monies yet meager results to show for it.
——–
2008 was the first time the Yanks missed the playoffs since 1993 (the last time the Jays won a World Series, the last time they made the playoffs). Yanks ran off a playoff streak from 1996 to 2007. In that span, the Yanks won 3 World Series, and appeared two other times. They won 90 plus games as recently as 2007.

By harping on the draft, you seem to ignore their efforts on the international front, which have netted players like Mariano Rivera, Robinson Cano, Chien-Ming Wang, among others.

By harping on the payroll, you either don’t or can’t recognize that the players mentioned cost money to retain. No GM in their right mind is going to let Jeter, Posada or Rivera walk. No GM in their right mind is going to ignore Giambi, Mussina, Matsui, Clemens, etc, etc, etc.

But, hey, don’t let facts get in the way of a good rant

I’m one of Steve’s “Cashman apologists” and I think keeping Cashman was a sensible move for a number of reasons.

Having said that, I do think there’s a brain-drain in New York, as compared to Boston. I won’t give Tampa the benefit of the doubt just yet because they’ve been picking in the top 3 for a decade. But Boston has been picking down at the bottom with us and they’ve done a much, much, much better job of identifying and nurturing talent than we have. It’s got nothing to do with Bill James. It’s got to do with draft strategy and scouting. We’re not doing a good enough job on either front.