Via Johnette Howard yesterday -
Since the Red Sox won the ‘04 World Series, it’s often seemed as if they and the Yankees were operating in parallel universes, but at almost every important juncture, the Red Sox did better. Boston signed Daisuke Matsuzaka out of Japan the same offseason the Yankees took Kei Igawa. Boston got Josh Beckett from the Marlins; the Yankees signed Carl Pavano. Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano and Phil Hughes regressed this year; their young Red Sox counterparts, Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury and Dustin Pedroia, kept blossoming.
Actually, the Red Sox offset to Pavano was Matt Clement. And, the Yankees answer to Josh Beckett was more like Kyle Farnsworth. But, the Dice-K/Igawa pairing is dead-on. And, the part about the Red Sox young players doing better than the Yankees young players, to date, seems like a good point…again, for now. Or, is it? Which group is better?
Yankees Red Sox Robinson Cano Dustin Pedroia Melky Cabrera Jacoby Ellsbury Brett Gardner Jed Lowrie Joba Chamberlain Jonathan Papelbon Chien-Ming Wang Jon Lester Jeff Karstens Lenny DiNardo Phil Hughes Clay Buchholz David Robertson David Pauley Tyler Clippard Abe Alvarez Ian Kennedy Craig Hansen Chase Wright Manny Delcarmen Phil Coke Justin Masterson
Yeah, for now, when it comes to finding young talent, you have to give Boston the edge, over the Yankees, in the last four years or so…but, that’s just my opinion. What do you think?
11 Responses to “Howard: Sox Do It Better Than Yanks”
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October 11th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Do you really need an answer as to which group is better? Put it this way:
You managed to skip Kevin Youkilis, who had an MVP-caliber season.
Pedroia was supposed to “come back to Earth” after his rookie campaign after the league adjusted to him. Instead, in 2007-08, he’s hit under .298 in exactly two months – April 2007 and May 2008. How is Cano doing for consistency across an entire season?
Melky dreams of the day he impacts a game like Ellsbury. If Gardner becomes the CF, he dreams of hitting the ten homers Jacoby managed this season. In his career.
Robertson aspires to be MDC.
How do you like Wang in the playofs as opposed to Lester so far?
I guess this was a better column to base a post on though. Vaccaro wrote a freakin’ Valentine to the Sox after Game 1.
October 11th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Once i was, Melky was a decent defensive centerfielder. That spark of youth with Melky AND Shelley Duncan was important last season. Melky made that crazy catch last year that stole a home run from former Boston god Manny. That was a pretty cool contribution.I’ve already made the point that Ellsbury is no Pedroia, he’s good but not great like Dustin the Wolf Boy. I’d like to see what Ellsbury becomes, I really think he is hyped relative to Pedroia and some of the other newbies. As for Gardner, do you have a crystal ball on him? I don’t know what he will be. So far, he hasn’t hit for average or power and I don’t know what he will hit given a chance. I’m not the greatest fan of Gardner but let’s not jump the gun.
Steve , one big correction. Beckett and Farnsworth have no relation AT ALL. Beckett and Lowell( who was forced on Boston) were sent to Boston in a trade for Hanley Ramirez and Co. That was a trade that the interim people made and that was a great trade for both sides. Farnsworth was a free agent signing where Farnie didn’t blossom until Girardi took over the team. That Beckett trade was a move that Doogie Howser GM Theo didnot engineer!
BTW, Wang was average in the playoffs until last year, where he was absolutely abysmal. I wouldn’t give up on Wang yet, though he is not a 1a but rather a very good 2c or 3a pitcher.
As for Cano, hasn’t he played two more seasons than Pedroia? I mean c’mon some of your arguments are based on homerism. Let’s see what Pedroia will become in two years then get back to me. Pedroia sucked when he started out last year, he didn’t get things started straight out of the box. I hear the same BS about Papelbon from Red Sox fans, let’s see how he holds up next year and in the future. Once I Was, your argument deals in hypotheticals and I’m dealing with the here and now. Will Ellsbury be mediocre a year from now or even Pedroia or even Lowry or Cash. I like what I see from these kids BUT they are still kids, some of them might become Beantown’s version of Kevin Maas for all I know.
Anyway, the Rays and the Sox have an edge in terms of the youth movement no doubt. That is where Cash Man screwed up. He drafted a scant number of position players and the team is paying for it.
October 11th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
The Sawx bunch eats the Yanks bunch for lunch. The Rays eat them both.
October 11th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
What GPR.22 said. I’d trade the lot of them for Shields, Longoria, Upton, etc.
October 11th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Butchie, that Melky catch was in 2006 when his “energy” was so special. Ellsbury impacts games right now with his 50 SB and highlight reel catches that happen on a virtually daily basis. And if you believe that his .280 BA is the best he can do in the majors, well you go right along believing that.
Pedroia. He had a rough September 2006 and a rough April 2007. He’s hit something like .335 since then. He doesn’t take months or half seasons off like Cano. And he doesn’t mess up the easy plays or many of the hard ones. He also knows how to take a pitch unlike Robby and he’s even managed to steal more bases in 200 fewer games.
As for Gardner, I know he showed no power in the minors, while most people project Ellsbury to have Damon-level home run power in another couple of years.
October 12th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Ellsbury is a legit player and a CF to boot. Boston is strong up the middle here with home grown guys for another decade.
A big advantage as any Yankee fan knows.
October 12th, 2008 at 8:46 am
~You managed to skip Kevin Youkilis~
A. He came up during 2004, not after it.
B. He was not exactly a spring chicken when he “made it” – he was 27 when he became a FT player.
October 12th, 2008 at 9:58 am
That is absolutely no reason to skip Youkilis in this accounting. And he’s supposed to be penalized for losing a year for being stuck behind a healthy Billy Mueller?
This article could have just as easily put it this way:
In the first decade of the 21st century, both the Red Sox and Yankees decided that to compete, they had to, in Theo Epstein’s words, create a “world class player development system”. Boston made the decision before the Yankees did, and have reaped the benefits ever since, with more, and better, high-impact young players reaching the majors.
October 12th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
FWIW, Howard’s piece had “Since the Red Sox won the ‘04 World Series…”
So, that’s why I used that as the starting point.
October 12th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
There is a certain cyclical aspect to all this. Yes, the Sox have surpassed the Yanks in acquisitions and player development during the last few years.
They can do no wrong. Every signing works out, role players fit in perfectly and call-ups perform well. Looks alot like the Yanks of the late 90’s.
But there’s a bit of chance to it all. No one really knows how a player will fit it or how a minor leaguer will perform. The Sox are on the roll that we were on a few years ago.
This is not to discredit any of their current success. But they should enjoy it while it lasts.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Once I Was, I don’t care how any given player projects, Ellsbury MIGHT become superstar I have no idea. I still have a very small sample size so far so I don’t know how good he can be. Melky was decent for the time he was up with the Yankees, he was never an offensive force BUT he had some pretty damn good catches in the outfield. I didn’t call up Bill James up in Boston or in his palatial estate in Kansas what Melky did, I actually went to the games and watch the games on TV. I did an anti-Bill James and actually saw the Kid perform very well in the outfield.They could afford to keep him in the outfield until their entire offense went belly up!
There is another way where the Red Stockings fans (The Beaners) are becoming insane like Yankee (currently the Tankees) fans during the Dynasty did. ook at Papelbon, he greater than Rivera right? He might project to be better than him but let me see Pape when he is 38! I hate his asshole shaped mouth, but think he’s a decent guy and a damn good pitcher BUT he’s only pitched what 20 innings in the playoffs? He’s not Revera…..yet! In essence, your argument is based on maybe not on an elongated body of work.
As for Wolf Boy , Pedroia I like his scrappiness BUT talk to me in two years to see where he is. He might hit below average at that point, I have no idea. Phil Hughes was projected to be Clemens JR BUT where is he. Once again, I need to see more years of Pedroia to see if he becomes Eckstein (short, scrappy, gamer BUT not the greatest defensive or offensive player) or something else.
I will say that Youk is a player that is real. He is the Paul O’ Neill of the Red Pox, but he is a bigger jerk than Pauile ever was. Youk plays the corners so well, and really gives it his all when he heads up to bat. The Yanks need a player like Youkilis, someone that is a warrior and with Cash Man and Hank we will see more 200 million players!
As an aggregate, I can say that the Red Pox have donw a better job with their young position players, look at all my posts. BUT I don’t want to get into specifics BECAUSE I don’t know what they will be. Things look good know but with young players no one knows what they will become. Look at Buccholz, he looked like another worldbeater after his nohitter and where is he pitching now?There are other questions with Boston’s youth…… Is Cash gonna replace Tek? Is Masterson gonna sputter out like Buchholz if he becomes a starter again?