Game 7 Of The 2008 ALCS
Thinking about this game tonight, some points that Paul O’Neill made during the YES Network post-game coverage following Game 6 of the 2003 World Series keep popping into my head. Paulie’s points, then, were:
“There’s one game throughout the series that seems to just change everything. And, [here] it was Game 4.
They [the Yankees] just came out. They beat Beckett. They’re in Miami. All of a sudden, I saw them [the Yankees] come out for stretching [before Game 4] like they were going to walk all over the Marlins.
The Marlins bounced back. They won that game. And, they never gave the momentum back. And, in a short series, that will get you the ring.”
Getting back to this ALCS, I just think what the Red Sox did during Game 5 screams “There’s one game in the series that changes everything!”
Therefore, I think the Rays are in deep and hot water. And, it would not shock me, at this point, to see the Red Sox reach the World Series for the third time in the last five years.
In a way, it’s starting to look like the 2004-2008 Red Sox are Boston’s verison of the 1996-2000 Yankees. Would you agree?
Welcome to the club Steve. Game 5 changed everything.
I think that the circumstances were different. The Yankees were heavily favored to win that series. They played a team that was not considered their equal. I don’t think it hinges on one game BECAUSE you have to show up to play the other games after “that game”…PERIOD! There is no ghost or magic arrow that guides you after that but you know what does? Timely hitting, clutch starting and relief pitching, running the bases etc so on. The Marlins got those elements right and lost the series accordlingly.
Even if the Red Sox lose tonight, they are one of the most amazing teams of all time. They are beyond the 90s-00 Dynasty for several different reasons. The teams in the AL East have become much better. The Red Sox have no Manny, Lowell and Schilling! That is shocking that they are staging such a comeback in such a manner without those guys. Don La Greca of ESPN said that he has never seen a sports team like this EVER. The Dynasty Yankees couldn’t come back from 7-0 in a playoff game that was an elimination game. They didn’t score that many runs and they weren’t a team that was touched by the hand of Bill James either. THe 90s Yankees had gutty roleplayers BUT they didn’t have this crazy confluence of power, OBP and comeback ability. The Yanks also didn’t lie down for 3 games like a sleeping giant and then wake up either. They were less erratic when it counted. The Yankees were more regal, the REd sox look like lumberjacks or lunchpail guys.This is gonna make Once I Was’s day but this team is on another echelon than the Yankees of the 1990s . When you come back from the dead so many times like this, it is more than just a coincidence. In essence, they have a scant resemblance to the Dynasty of the 90s in that they have role players BUT the buck stops there. They are very different with smarter management (Theo better than Cashman, Bill James better than Stick, though Stick is a damn good talent evaluator) etc. No , I am not discounting what the Yanks did but telling it like it is.
All that being said ….Go Rays! Even David slayed Goliath! As great as the Twenty O Red Sox are they are still human. There was a 1.5 % chance that they could win that game 5 in the 7th. The Rays can also hit their pitching, so we’ll see. Not matter what Francona deserves special props for doing a stellar job, if only the Yanks had such luck with a manager and his talent……..
I knew this would happen. All the Yankee-haters and Red Sox fans are going to come out and declare the 2000 version of the Red Sox the ‘greatest teams of all time’. Yes, I know sports fans are always the ‘what have you done for me lately’ crowd, with absolutely zero perspective. It would not surprise me in the least to hear the always-sensationalist ESPN declare the very same thing.
They will be embarrassingly wrong, and history will bear that out.
I agree, the late-90s Yankee Dynasty and the probably 2000s Red Sox dynasty should be compared, if only because they’ll be the only dynasties in the wildcard era. But until the Sox win 3 in a row, and until they have one of the greatest seasons of all time, like the 98 Yankees did, they are nowhere near the ‘eschelon’ of the late-90s Yankees. (And remember, they’ve already missed the playoffs during their ‘historic run’. Not exactly the mark of a all-time great ‘dynasty’.) You know why the Yankees didn’t have to mount ‘late comebacks’? Because usually, they were so good, they didn’t get into that hole in the first place.
And you can can it with the parity talk. All parity really does is water down the teams that actually do make the playoffs. The Yankees conquered the late-90s Braves twice, and the 2001 Oakland and Seattle teams. Teams that would, honestly, probably walk all over any World Championship team in this decade, including your vaunted Boston Red Sox. Compare them more to the, say, Oakland dynasty, or the Red Sox dynasty of the early 1900s, not the late-90s Yankees. It’s for your own sake.
Andew YF, the 1990s Yankees beat a lot of bottomfeeders to get to the top. The AL is very different these days. Where there a Halladay or Burnett in the AL East even ten years ago? Maybe a Clemens BUT he joined the enemy! Once again, I quote Don La Greca who said that he even hasn’t seen a hockey team or any team like this in the history of sports(the 20 Os version of the Red Sox). Mate, I am not a Red Sox fan at all. If you look at my past posts, I call them the New Evil Empie, derisively the Red Pox and the Red Stockings. I don’t root for them as a matter of fact my closing statement shows that I am openly rooting for Tampa.I have even called Red Sox fans a loathsome lot, go to Fenway and see what I mean. BUT I like the job Theo and Bill James have done up in Boston and they have a fiesty team up there. The NYYs had one Paul O’ Neill BUT this year’s version of the Sox seems to have 4 guys that fill that role! The 90s Yankees had a ton of special players But they were regal not dirtbags and idiots like the Sox are (which is a left handed compliment).
The 2001 Yankees might have conquered Oakland and Seattle but not Arizona! That is a sore spot for most Yankee fans. That was the end of the dynasty. All the Yankee haters really came out in full force. Yeah, we got spoiled but that veteran team from the Desert didn’t deserve to win but they did.
Excuse me? Maddux/Smoltz/Glavine were ‘bottom feeders’?
The only teams that were bottom feeders were the regular season opponents. And if you want to argue their divisional wins, okay, but what made them truly great was their playoff domination. And please remember that the Sox aren’t exactly rolling off divisional wins during their ‘dynasty’. So we must only really compare the postseason. The late-90s Cleveland teams, the entire 1990s Atlanta teams, the Rangers, the Mariners, Oakland, these were their playoff opponents. Yeah, they beat Maddux/Smoltz/Glavine, a trio the likes of which no team has since matched. They shut down Manny/Thome/Vaughn, one of the greatest murderers row in history. You REALLY want to call them ‘bottom-feeders’? Buddy, you too have a complete lack of perspective.
I must say I “misremembered” the Cleveland team in 1998. And not Vaughn, Albert Belle.
Still. There were few bottom-feeders in the playoffs in that time. You want to see bottom-feeders? Try this year’s Angels team. Try last year’s Angels team. Try 2004′s Angels team. The Rockies, oh boy what a great team, right? The Yankees in 2004, man, they were really a terror. Uh huh. Come on, man.
… well, it doesn’t matter now. Nice Rays.
And I just saw this. The Red Sox are “one of the most amazing teams of all time?” And you compared this run by them favorably to the late-90s run by the Yankees? You’re one of those ‘Yankee fans’ who want Joba in the bullpen, and who attribute all the Yankees’ success to Joe Torre, right?
“In a way, it’s starting to look like the 2004-2008 Red Sox are Boston’s verison of the 1996-2000 Yankees. Would you agree?”
The Rays disagree
~~~ “In a way, it’s starting to look like the 2004-2008 Red Sox are Boston’s verison of the 1996-2000 Yankees. Would you agree?”
The Rays disagree “
Perhaps the Rays do disagree, but the Sox showed a lot more heart than the Yanks did this year. And they do look more like those Yankees teams than the current version.
>> Perhaps the Rays do disagree, but the Sox showed a lot more heart than the Yanks did this year. And they do look more like those Yankees teams than the current version. >>
Ok ken, thanks for the input. Back to a local Sox blog with you…
Oh God, now it’s going to be “The Curse of Manny!”
Word of consolation to J.D. Drew: Tony Lazzeri is in the Hall of Fame.
See, the problem with making comparisons based on predictions, is that no matter what patterns are perceived, the teams still have to play the actual games. Just ask the 19-0 Patriots if they’re New England’s version of the 1972 Dolphins or the 1970′s Steelers.
So now, the Red Sox of the 00′s are more like the St. Louis Cardinals of the 60′s than the Yanks of the late 80′s.
Or not. Maybe they’re just like the Red Sox of the 00′s, and they stand on their own merit, and we’ll see what they can really accomplish in the long haul.
All in good time.
Andrew , when I said bottomfeeders I meant the crappy teams in the AL at the time. I like what the Yanks did in the 90s BUT the teams are different now. The Twenty O Red Sox are a never say die team. C’mon 7-0 in the 7th in an elimination game. And that is without Manny, Schilling and Lowell. Look, I wanted Tampa to win, they are a great story and as I had said, even David slayed Goliath. I analogized the Rays as the Marlins and the Red Sox as the Yankees. The unlikely team won AND I am very happy about it.
Evan we seem to agree to a certain degree . This is a different era right now and these teams will be judged on their own merit. THat being said even without major cogs and Beckett not being 100% the Red Sox showed heart BUT the better team won…….Go Rays!
butchie, why bother going so far out of your way to defend the Red Sox anyway?
Pete, I am not defending the Red Pox. I’m just telling like it is. The better team won BUT they put up a fight and that made the series interesting. If the Yankees were in the playoffs and showed the same grit and fire, i would say the same thing. Sadly, not enough of grit, heart, and fire is on this current version of the Yankees. Ever since 2004, things have gotten progressively worse in Yankeeland. And Cash Man is rewarded for a lack of WS success since 2000. And I hate to say it but if they don’t make the playoffs next year, Girardi is gone BUT Cash Man stays.
Andrew a few more things:
Still. There were few bottom-feeders in the playoffs in that time. You want to see bottom-feeders? Try this year’s Angels team. Try last year’s Angels team. Try 2004’s Angels team. The Rockies, oh boy what a great team, right? The Yankees in 2004, man, they were really a terror. Uh huh. Come on, man.Quote
The angels won what one hundred games? Right? The Yankees have been the Angels’ bitch since 2002. And isn’t Scioscia considered the best manager in the game? No doubt. So that is out there? The Rockies were arguably the hottest team of all time coming in and through the playoffs. Another bad example. The Rockettes were on fire!! THe 2004 had the REd Sox beat if only POsada could throw Roberts out AND Mariano gets a save. They were not the 98 Yankees but came in first place and intially crushed the REd Sox before the REd Sox cam back Another bad example….
Another thing. Joba belongs in the starting rotation. PERIOD. Don’t put words in my mouth. It’s one thing if Mariano gets injured,but even then a kid with stuff like Joba’s has to be a 1a . Remember that 1-0 game against Boston in Fenway this year? Joba is the future number 1 of the Yankees pure and simple. He also needs to go to AA and sort out that problem , we don’t want him to become Sir Sidney.