• Manny The Yankee?

    Posted by on October 30th, 2008 · Comments (31)

    Via George King -

    Manny Ramirez doesn’t fit the Yankees desire to get younger and more athletic, but several industry sources believe the Yankees will make a serious push for the free agent to play right field next year.

    Though GM Brian Cashman says the top offseason priority is starting pitching, he did not rule out interest in the 36-year-old Ramirez.

    “We are looking at starting pitching,” Cashman said when asked about the team’s interest in Ramirez. “We will see how the free agent and trade markets are.”

    In the past, I’ve shared that Ramirez is the best right-handed batter that I’ve ever seen…and I still feel that way.

    But, I dunno…

    This just screams of the “Need pitching, can’t find pitching, add more hitting” Cashman Modus Operandi that we’ve seen in the Bronx for the last five years.

    Also, it would be nice to see the Yankees get away from the “Twenty-five players, twenty-five multi-million dollar corporations” state that they’ve been in lately.

    What do you think? Should the Yankees make a run at picking up Manny Ramirez?

    Comments on Manny The Yankee?

    1. Raf
      October 30th, 2008 | 10:00 am

      This just screams of the “Need pitching, can’t find pitching, add more hitting” Cashman Modus Operandi that we’ve seen in the Bronx for the last five years.
      ————-
      At the same time, the pitching wasn’t the problem last season, it was the hitting.

    2. antone
      October 30th, 2008 | 10:08 am

      There would be a lot of pluses to adding Manny and the biggest one would probably be that it would take A LOT of pressure off of A-Rod. You could bat Manny 4th behind A-Rod in the 3 hole and A-Rod would probably see a lot of good pitches to hit.

      I don’t like the idea of Manny in the outfield and I’m sure he would cause some problems every once in a while, but the guy can flat out rake the baseball and you are pretty much guaranteed to have a top notch offense if you add him. This would also take pressure off the pitching staff in some ways.

      In my opinion, if you add Manny you let him DH. Keep Nady in right and Damon in left. I would be okay with plugging Melky or Gardner in CF now that you have Manny’s big bat in the lineup. Then I think you trade Matsui for the best pitching you can get, whether a back end starter or a reliever, or possibly even a 1B option.

      For the pitching, you could still go after Sabathia if you wanted. So Sabathia and Manny would be the only two free agents you spend big money on. The you have Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba and whoever in the 5th spot…either Hughes/Alceves/Rasner/free agent acquisition/trade acquisition.

      Let’s not forget we just witnessed a Phillies team win a World Series with Brett Myers, Jamie Moyer, and Joe Blanton in their rotation. I think Wang, Petitte, and Joba would be pretty comparable to that. Obviously Hamels has been better than Sabathia in the post season, but Sabathia could certainly get you into the postseason and as we have seen the playoffs seem to be a crap shoot these days anyway.

      Your team would look like this

      1. Damon, LF
      2. Jeter, SS
      3. A-Rod, 3B
      4. Manny, DH
      5. Posada, C
      6. Nady, RF
      7. Free Agent/Trade/Giambi, 1B
      8. Cano, 2B
      9. Melky/Gardner, CF

      1. Sabathia
      2. Wang
      3. Joba
      4. Pettitte
      5. Hughes/Alceves/Rasner/Free Agent/Trade

      So Steve have I convinced you to let me replace Cashman yet? haha

    3. October 30th, 2008 | 10:10 am

      this article couldve very well said anything. there is no substance to it; no direct questions, no real sources… pure speculation.

      there is no way Cashman is signing Manny to play RF.

      i would say you could hardly do worse than to sign the best pure RH hitter of my generation to protect the best overall player in the game in th lineup for the next 4 years… but unless they move Hideki and/or Damon to clear room in LF or at DH, Manny isnt going to be in pinstripes.

    4. Raf
      October 30th, 2008 | 10:14 am

      there is no way Cashman is signing Manny to play RF.
      ———-
      Can he play it any worse than Abreu?

    5. Tresh Fan
      October 30th, 2008 | 10:29 am

      Can he play it any worse than Abreu?
      ——
      Poor Bobby just can’t get any love!
      I wonder how he’s feeling now that the Phillies are World Champions?

    6. EdB
      October 30th, 2008 | 10:30 am

      I’d sign him in a heart beat. The obvious problem with Manny is motivation. The Yankees most obvious problem is Boston (forgive me for not jumping on the Rays bandwagon just yet). Hence Manny Vs Boston eliminates both problems. That’s almost enough reason alone to sign him but he proved in LA that he is far from diminished as a hitter. I say trade Damon; have Matsui and Ramirez play LF/DH (live with the defense). Gardner’s biggest proven strength is his ability to eat up Real Estate in the OF. If he can hit at all I would guess this alignment would be the strongest.

      Also, like Raf said Manny can’t be that much worse than Abreu in RF. So maybe you trade Nady instead. Either way-match made in heaven.

    7. thenewguy
      October 30th, 2008 | 10:34 am

      Manny Ramirez is no Ron Artest, despite the media portraying him as such and worse. Manny got a little grumpy this year (more than likely with the encouragement of one Scott Boras), but there is no question this guy is one of the 3 best right-handed bats out there (with A-Rod and Pujols). And, of course, the only of the 3 to win a WS. That said, I would only want Manny in addition to Tex, not instead of.

      No doubt, Manny would improve the team offensively next year more than Tex. But I would rather have a (younger) Tex for 6 years than an aging Manny for 4. If we could get both, giving Manny only 2 (maybe 3) years, then do it.

    8. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      October 30th, 2008 | 10:37 am

      If the Yankees signing Manny means a clear shot at Teixeira, I could deal with it. Even Manny will decline (and until he got to L.A., had been declining), and I know Steve will get apoplectic when he doesn’t follow “the Yankee way”, let alone when he goes completely off the reservation.

    9. October 30th, 2008 | 10:58 am

      “Can he play it any worse than Abreu?”

      that isnt the point.

      the point is to get better in RF.

      Manny wants to play in NY, he’s a DH.

      you want him to DH? then you have to trade Matsui away, minimum… and then hope Jorge’s shoulder really is healthy enough to catch 120+ games next season.

    10. antone
      October 30th, 2008 | 11:01 am

      If the Yankees signing Manny means a clear shot at Teixeira, I could deal with it. Even Manny will decline (and until he got to L.A., had been declining), and I know Steve will get apoplectic when he doesn’t follow “the Yankee way”, let alone when he goes completely off the reservation.
      —————————————————

      Honestly, I think if he rakes the ball Yankees fans really won’t care for the most part, especially if Yankees fans think he is doing better than A-Rod in clutch situations. That’s a free pass for him right there, they’ll keep ragging on A-Rod instead of Manny even if he gets out of line a little bit.

      That is also why I would rather see him as a DH because then all he has to do is hit and you don’t have to worry about him crawling on all fours in the outfield and cutting off throws from Damon. Less chance for him to get bashed by the media and fans if he isn’t in the field.

      I also like a motivated Manny trying to beat the Red Sox. You could be talking MVP season right there. Who knows maybe he’d even help A-Rod relax a little bit. The question is how many years would you want to give him because at some point he’s going to decline so is it worth it to give him 4 years when you might only get two great ones. If you really want to win next season, I think you do it.

    11. October 30th, 2008 | 11:08 am

      LOL – OnceIWasAYankeeFan

      If Manny comes to New York, I can just see it now…
      every time he hot dogs it, pulls a rock, or mails it in, and I rip him for it (which, BTW, I would – with both guns blazing)…
      the comments would start flooding in…

      “Steve, you’re such a hater!”
      “Steve, who cares what he does as long as his stats are there?”
      “Steve, why so negative?”

    12. antone
      October 30th, 2008 | 11:14 am

      I just want to see Manny and A-Rod on the same team and see who helps the team more. The whole thing just intrigues me since I’ve always thought Manny was a better hitter than A-Rod. I also think it would be interesting to see the response each one gets from the fans. You guys have to admit the entertainment factor alone would be incredible. Obviously the Yanks should only do it if it’s going to help them win ball games though.

    13. Raf
      October 30th, 2008 | 11:21 am

      the point is to get better in RF.
      ——
      And you will :)

      As for the logjam in the OF, they’re usually resolved over the course of a season.

    14. October 30th, 2008 | 11:25 am

      “As for the logjam in the OF, they’re usually resolved over the course of a season.”

      yeah, thats a great plan.

    15. Raf
      October 30th, 2008 | 11:34 am

      yeah, thats a great plan.
      ———-
      Yep. I’d rather have and not need, than need and not have.

      In 2006, Torre managed to find time to play Sheffield, Matsui, Melky & Abreu in the lineup.

      After last year, I wouldn’t want to count on Matsui coming on full strength, especially since he has managed to miss significant time in 2 of the last 3 seasons. I would expect Damon & Posada to miss time as well.

      You can never have too much pitching or hitting, and whatever parts are needed to be moved, will be.

    16. Pat F
      October 30th, 2008 | 11:45 am

      “At the same time, the pitching wasn’t the problem last season, it was the hitting.”

      raf – it’s amazing. we score over 200 less runs in 2008 than 2007, and a majority of what we hear everywhere is that the yankees need pitching. i’m not saying the yankees don’t need pitching, but our team ERA was better in 08 than 07, and we won less games, so that was clearly not the issue. and you can’t just chalk the offensive woes up to injuries (posada/matsui) and underperformances (melky/cano). those were factors, but that wasn’t everything. this team needs a bat. doesn’t have to be manny, but it could be. anyone of the general .280+/.380+/.500+ fold will do, be it manny, tex, prince, holliday, gonzalez fold will do. i realize there are positives and negatives to all of these guys, and some may not be available, i’m just putting out the kind of hitter the yankees need.

    17. Pat F
      October 30th, 2008 | 11:52 am

      sorry to add on, but it’s like we have just assumed we are going to score runs because we are the yankees. as we found out last year, that’s not the case. we need an imact bat to sandwich a-rod, period.

    18. mmtdad
      October 30th, 2008 | 1:18 pm

      Let me add my voice to those urging the Yanks to go hard after Manny. Yes, we need pitching. But This team also needs offense desperately. There is no other signing this winter that would add as much to the runs scored total as adding Ramirez.

      Let’s face it. If Abreu and Giambi go, there are going to be some huge holes in the lineup (not counting the gaping hole in center field). There are no answers from wtihin the organization. Austin Jackson is a couple of years away from the big club. I saw him a few times in Trenton this past season and liked him. In an Eastern League playoff game, I saw him hit a home run and make 3 circus catches. But who knows how good he’ll be in the show? Forget about the criticisms of going the free agent route, the Yankees need to sign some hitters.

      That said, I have to admit that I am pessimistic that they will. Cashman has passed on some of the most obvious deals (Beltran, Santana) because it appears he doesn’t want to be accused of buying a pennant anymore. If that’s going to be the team’s strategy, it will be a long wait for another world series.

    19. October 30th, 2008 | 1:45 pm

      FWIW, I don’t buy the “we need hitting” case. Yes, when you’re pitching stinks – or is just close to average – you need an offense that’s going to core 900-something runs to win 90+ games. But, when you have pitching, and it’s good pitching, you don’t need as much hitting to win 90+ games.

      The run differential thing works both ways. Yes, more scoring when your pitching is “X” means more wins. But, when you score less, you can still get more wins by making your pitching “X + more.”

      Plus, the more scoring thing works in-season, when you face a lot of garbage pitchers. But, in the post-season, you face better pitching – and then you lose that hitting edge.

      I’d rather be the team who pitches well, and maybe scores less, during the season, to win my 90-something games – - and then be the team in the post-season with the good pitching to shut down the other teams and give myself a chance to go toe-to-toe with the other team’s good pitchers.

      Make sense?

    20. antone
      October 30th, 2008 | 2:20 pm

      I agree with you Steve…except I think you need some big bats in the middle on the lineup to win it all…if the Yanks don’t bring in anyone else to put around A-Rod it won’t matter how good their pitching is they won’t even make the playoffs. Look at the Blue Jays for example.

      Losing Abreu and Giambi and then not replacing one of them with a Manny or Teixeira is not going to get it done in my mind. I wouldn’t be counting on Nady to hit like he did last year again or Posada to hit like he did in 2007. The 3-4-5 spots are looking pretty bare to me right now other than A-Rod.

    21. October 30th, 2008 | 2:36 pm

      ~~The 3-4-5 spots are looking pretty bare to me right now other than A-Rod.~~

      FWIW, you could bat Gardner 2nd, behind Damon, and have Jeter bat 3rd. And, then, Posada or Nady could bat 5th.

      Granted, that’s not awesome. But, it doesn’t suck either.

    22. Raf
      October 30th, 2008 | 2:48 pm

      I’d rather be the team who pitches well, and maybe scores less, during the season, to win my 90-something games – - and then be the team in the post-season with the good pitching to shut down the other teams and give myself a chance to go toe-to-toe with the other team’s good pitchers.

      Make sense?
      ————–
      Yes it does, then you look and see that the White Sox & Angels didn’t make it out the first round. You see the Twins not doing much when they had Santana, you see all the 1st round exits of the A’s when they had Zito-Hudson-Mulder fronting the rotation, etc, etc, etc.

    23. antone
      October 30th, 2008 | 2:52 pm

      FWIW, you could bat Gardner 2nd, behind Damon, and have Jeter bat 3rd. And, then, Posada or Nady could bat 5th.

      Granted, that’s not awesome. But, it doesn’t suck either.
      —————————————————
      Gardner hasn’t even proved he’s a 9 hole hitter yet nevermind 2 hole worthy. I don’t see that as an option.

      Jeter in the 3rd spot would be acceptable if you had A-Rod 4th and Texeira or Manny 5th..but since you have Posada or Nady then I don’t think that’s a good enough offense to get the job done. I don’t think they should go into the season thinking Posada or Nady is a 5 hitter or that Jeter is a 3 hitter.

    24. Raf
      October 30th, 2008 | 2:54 pm

      Plus, the more scoring thing works in-season, when you face a lot of garbage pitchers. But, in the post-season, you face better pitching – and then you lose that hitting edge.
      ——
      I don’t believe that’s the case. We’ve seen the Yanks get pwned by pitchers like Kenny Rogers, Paul Byrd, Ervin Santana, among others.

      The Yanks have had failures in all facets of the game, be it the starting pitching, bullpen, offense, or defense.

    25. EHawk
      October 30th, 2008 | 3:09 pm

      Also its worth mentioning that Manny I don’t think would go over to well with a lot of the veteran players like Jeter, Posada, etc. I’m willing to bet Cashman wouldn’t sign him without getting the approval of those guys first and I don’t think he’d get that for a knucklehead like Manny.

    26. butchie22
      October 30th, 2008 | 3:29 pm

      Manny? There are some players that are poorly cast for certain teams. Manny is poorly cast for the Mets. LAD AND the Yankees. For LA, he is a DH RIGHT NOW! He’s a butcher in left. The Mets need bullpen help, they need to spend 25-30 mill on other players that can close and set up, they have enough hitting. THe Yankees have a million DH/first base types and they need to become younger. Manny adds age, unruliness and declining production. Omar and Colletti are stupid enough to think that Manny will solve all of their problems, especially Omar who is a bigger dunce than Cash Man is. Colletti (who I think is the biggest dolt of all) has made some stupid signings and Manny will be another one. Yeah, he helped them short term BUT he won’t be able to DH. He is far from an asset in the field. I can’t see Cash Man or Girardi being thrilled with Manram coming.

      Manny should go to Toronto. Why, Rogers and Beeston will pay through the nose for that elusive big bat that they lack. Manny also wants to come back to the AL East to stick it to the REd Sox, if not the Yanks then the Jays.

      Teix is a perfect fit for the Yanks. HE is young, fields well and can hit. And he’s basically a decade younger than Manram.

      The Yankee Way? There were many Yankees in the 77-78 Bronx Zoo era who hated one another and had facial hair so the Yankee Way is complete BS(well almost)! The pronblem with Manram is that he is worse than the guys on the Bronx Zoo period. He quit on the Sox and that speaks for itself.

    27. thenewguy
      October 30th, 2008 | 3:59 pm

      THe Yankees have a million DH/first base types and they need to become younger. Manny adds age, unruliness and declining production
      ————————————-

      The Yankees do have a bunch of DH-worthy players, so why not get someone who is better than all of them? You would honestly rather see Matsui than Manny? Because I know any pitcher would prefer facing Matsui. As for age, it doesn’t seem to be a problem with Manny, and my guess is that for 3 years it won’t matter.

      Unruliness? Can’t argue with you there. But then what does A-Rod add? Or when Giambi’s steroid use was exposed? Or when Clemens created a circus by returning mid-season?

      And as for declining production? You consider a .332 BA, 37 HR, 121 RBI, 102 Runs, OPS of 1.031 in 153 games to be declining?
      Oh, and even while in Boston he sported a .299 BA and an OPS+ 136 when he was allegedly ‘dogging’ it. Over a full season those are his best numbers since ’05, when he was 4th in MVP. Old? Maybe. Declining? No. I’ll take those numbers any day.

    28. thenewguy
      October 30th, 2008 | 4:00 pm

      That said, I would prefer Tex for the long haul. But ideally would want both.

    29. butchie22
      October 30th, 2008 | 4:21 pm

      NEw Guy, Arod is not a cancer in the clubhouse . Manny quit on the REd Sox back in 2006. When he went to get Xrayed for his knee problem he forgot which knee was hurting him! The analogy with Arod and Manny is totally inapt…..

      You want to act yet another DH to this team that is over 35? The Yanks need to get younger and more athletic like Boston and Tampa. It’s nice to see that you agree with me about Teix, BUT Manny will be a drag on this team.

      Manny might me productive in his contract intially, BUT what if the Yanks come in third this year? He might do a replay of 2006 again. You can’t tell me that ManRam will be this good years from now either. His production will decline without the benefit of steroids, speed or even HGH. NOte: I don’t know if Manny did anything but under the current rules he would be hard pressed to try anything! Ultimately, you have a record of Manny being good when he wants to be, BUT when he was not being motivated he doesn’t care at all. That is not worth 25-30 mill a year……….

    30. Raf
      October 30th, 2008 | 7:56 pm

      Manny quit on the REd Sox back in 2006.
      —-
      And still put up the following line; .321-.439-.619…

      More players should quit on their teams if they’re going to hit like that :)

    31. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      October 30th, 2008 | 9:37 pm

      Yeah but what killed us is that when he quit, we still had a shot at the wild card. Maybe that ended when Papelbon had the transient subluxation of his shoulder but who knows if Manny had kept hitting for the last six weeks?

      And the whole idea that he was hitting so well in July, so he couldn’t have been “dogging” it. No one ever said that he was quitting on the team on a daily basis. But he did choose to declare that his knee was bothering him at a critical time with the Yanks coming in. It wasn’t that he forgot which knee, the Sox knew he was faking so they insisted on an MRI on both. When it came back clean they told Manny he either plays or gets suspended.

      And the final proof is in this telling statistic:
      He didn’t miss a single game once he got to L.A. until (I believe) the last week of the season! So he went from, my knee hurts, I can’t play to “try to take me out of the lineup”.

      I’ve no doubt that part of Manny’s success was the salary drive aspect and that you can’t know what you’ll get once he’s signed for the big bucks. No one can deny that in 2007 and a good portion of 2008, he couldn’t seem to catch up on good fastballs on the inner half. That to me was the sign of his eventual decline. He’s such a great hitter you’ll get impressive numbers at times, but the trend isn’t going to be good.

    Leave a reply

    You must be logged in to post a comment.