WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 10/30/08
Posted by Steve L. on October 30th, 2008 · Comments (13)
Feel free to use this post as a place for you to comment on anything Yankees-related (or within reach of tagging the bag of being Yankees-related on a decent slide) today. It could be a casual conversation offering, or, something you saw in the news, or something very detailed that you want to share that’s within the territory of Yankeeland.
Or, comment on something that someone else has posted here in the comments…
Have fun. Play nice. And, remember, keep it Yankees-focused.
soo…now what?
Sabathia is a MUST sign. 6yr 150mil? Coming right up Sir!
Get me Texiera
Trade Hughes & Kennedy (+) for Peavy
Trade Melky & Horne for Coco Crisp
Resign Moose (or Burnett if he retires)
Promote Melancon
Move Betemit to Scranton. Ransom’s better all around.
No on Pettite.
No on Giambi.
No on Abreu.
No on Irod.
Sabathia
Wang
Joba
Moose or Burnett
Aceves or Coke or Hughes
Damon
Jeter
Nady
Arod
Texiera
Posada
Matsui
Cano
Crisp
Mo
Melancon
Marte
Veras
Coke
Aceves or Hughes
Bruney
Edwar or Geese or Albaladejo
Molina
Miranda
Gardner
Ransom
Ooops. I forgot Peavy in my rotation above and not sure if editing is possible… I doubt the Pads would go for Hughes and Kennedy for Peavy anyway.
You sound like the kind of person who makes trade proposals without the slightest concern of whether or not it makes sense for the other team. Why would Theo possibly accept Melky and Horne for Coco? And given the drop in their stock, it takes a lot more than Hughes and Kennedy to get Peavey.
The Yanks aren’t getting Peavy for Hughes/Kennedy. Peavy doesnt’t want to pitch here and the Yanks won’t re-negoatiate his contract just to get him.
Forget abotu whether or not Boston would accept a Melky/Horne deal for Crisp, why on earth would the Yankees ever do that? You want a guy who did a 77, 83, 93 OPS+ the last three years in Boston? If you want a centerfielder that can’t adequately hit major league pitching, you’ve got two of them already on the team in Melky and Gardner. No sense in trading for the same player who is already older and more expensive.
Well I’d say that Coco is still an upgrade over the current alternatives, plus he’s a better runner than Melky and would get on base more than Gardner, which would negate Gardner’s speed advantage.
Honestly though if Coco gets shipped out there are other teams that will be interested in a veteran, reasonably priced CF.
Well I’d say that Coco is still an upgrade over the current alternatives, plus he’s a better runner than Melky and would get on base more than Gardner, which would negate Gardner’s speed advantage.
Honestly though if Coco gets shipped out there are other teams that will be interested in a veteran, reasonably priced CF.
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I’m not trying to get into a Yanks/Red Sox thing but that’s just kinda silly.
The Red Sox wouldn’t want Melky/Horne for Crisp because Melky isn’t an upgrade over Crisp and Horne wouldn’t beat out their top 3-4 arms in the system to make a trade worth pursuing.
Similarly, the Yanks wouldn’t trade Horne for “just” Crisp since Crisp is barely an upgrade over Melky. Better runner or not, he’s a below ML-average hitter who is older and more expensive. Crisp has minimal value to the Yanks. They could just as easily stick with a Damon/Gardner/Cabrera trio in CF without giving up Horne and be no worse off than if they’d gotten Crisp.
Like I said, I’m not trying to do a Yanks/Red Sox thing but your comment sounds like a bit of RS homerism here. Let’s just agree that Cabrera/Crisp/Gardner are all three limited players. The biggest value to Cabrera/Gardner is that they’re both younger and cheaper than Crisp. That’s reason enough not to view Crisp as an upgrade.
Well, homerism or not, I do believe that Crisp had a good enough season to regain some trade value, and I think he’s more than barely an upgrade offensively over Melky.
and I think he’s more than barely an upgrade offensively over Melky.
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OPS+
2006: 95 (MC), 77 (CC)
2007: 89 (MC), 83 (CC)
2008: 68 (MC), 93 (CC)
Show me where Crisp is “more than barely” an upgrade. In 2008, yes, obviously. But over a three-year period? No.
The Red Sox have paid $11M over the last three years for Crisp. The Yankees have paid a little over $1.5M over the last three years for Cabrera.
Melky has very little trade value, he’s a 4th outfielder. Crisp is more esteemed by other organizations. Simple as that….
Melky has very little trade value, he’s a 4th outfielder.
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No one’s saying any different.
The point I’m trying to make is that the Yanks wouldn’t trade for Crisp because they have a younger, cheaper version of the same flawed player not only in Melky but in Gardner.
Crisp is more esteemed by other organizations. Simple as that….
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As a “proven veteran” who “knows what it takes to win,” I’d say that is correct.
Doesn’t make them right, however
The number one thing to point out, MJ, is that the trends are in opposite directions. Melky could very well end up in AAA for another team next year, simply because its apparent to the league how to get him out. And don’t bring Gardiner in as the “same flawed player” – as someone said, he can’t even show he’s a number 9 hitter, let alone someone who could handle being number 2. Coco has a history of some success in the league, even if his seasons of 110+ OPS+ came a few years ago.