Cashman: When It Comes To Picking Up Players, You Do It & Then Just Hope It Works
Via Mark Feinsand -
[Brian] Cashman said that a player’s ability to handle New York is something he takes into consideration, but it’s impossible to know how a player will fit with the Yankees until he’s already wearing the uniform.
“It goes to some degree, but at the end of the day you have to light a candle that if you make a decision on a trade or free agent acquisition that they stay healthy, that they perform to the levels you expect when you make the commitment you make,” Cashman said. “We’ve had some successes and we’ve had some failures. There’s certainly not a science that I’ve been able to discover. You have to go with your scouting assessments and hope the players perform.”
…at the end of the day you have to light a candle that if you make a decision on a trade or free agent acquisition that they stay healthy, that they perform to the levels you expect when you make the commitment you make…
…There’s certainly not a science that I’ve been able to discover. You have to go with your scouting assessments and hope the players perform…
Or, in other words, ‘if something goes wrong, don’t blame me,’ right? It’s ‘blame the scouting reports,’ or the famous defense of ‘don’t blame me, it seemed like the right move at the time.’
Geez, this really burns me. There is a way to figure out if a player is going to be able to handle New York or not. It’s called doing your homework, networking, asking around, etc.
The previous Yankees G.M.’s did this with players like Jimmy Key, Tino Martinez and Paul O’Neill. You ask their former managers. You ask coaches in your system who have worked with the players before…or you ask players in your system, who you trust, who may have played with the player (somewhere) in the past. It’s really not that hard. Pro-baseball is a small community and just about everyone is connected within one link or two with each other.
But, then again, it requires a little work to pull this off – and it’s much, much, easier to just light a candle, pray, and hope for the best, right?
can you write somethong else besides knockong Cahman evrey single post.
Sorry. It’s pretty hard, at least for me, to ignore these (now) almost daily comments coming from Cashman which illustrate his incompetence and/or his penchant for deflecting blame.
You’re pretty much the only one who perceives them as such. That strongly suggests the problem lies at your feet.
Actually, if you do a google blog search on this topic, meaning Cashman, you will find several other bloggers who feel the same way as I do – and some reader comments left on their blogs who also support this opinion of him.
I understand that Cash Man’s brilliant scouts are saying that AJ Burnett is a big game pitcher! Whatta bunch of dolts. With AJ it’s Chuck Finley meets Pavano. I don’t care what the stupid scouts say, my cousin in Toronto watches AJ pitch and he is either really up 10% of the time or mediocre the rest of the time. Steve, I am also a Cash Man hater and am becoming a Yankee scout hater too with this stupid assessment of Burnett. I dont care where Burnett goes just not to the Yanks…..the scouts be damned!
Geez, this really burns me. There is a way to figure out if a player is going to be able to handle New York or not. It’s called doing your homework, networking, asking around, etc.
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And who’s to say he hadn’t done that?
Case in point, look around for reports about the Jeff Weaver trade. Everyone (scouts, GM’s, players) said that Weaver was the real deal, and the trade analysis pointed to that fact. You see how well that worked out.
Regardless, once you commit to a player, anything can happen during the course of a contract.
Didn’t Cashman already take full responsibility for his decisions this past offseason
or the famous defense of ‘don’t blame me, it seemed like the right move at the time.’
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That is your single-biggest flaw in arguing against Cashman. If something, on its facts and merits at the time seems like the slam-dunk right thing to do, then what else is there to say? You choose a course of action based on the best information available and that’s it. If it doesn’t work out, what are you supposed to say?
You seem to think that there’s an entire network of people out there that Cashman isn’t consulting with who could’ve told him that Javier Vazquez or Randy Johnson or Jeff Weaver wouldn’t do as well in NY as they had done in other cities. That’s simply not the case and is this artificial barrier that you’ve created in your own mind.
Steve, when YOU make decisions in your personal or professional life, how do YOU come to those choices? Do you make the best decision possible given all the information at your disposal? That’s what Cashman does. That’s what everyone does.
The bottom line here — the point everyone’s been saying for months and years on this blog — is that NO GM is infallible. You think Cashman supporters are saying he’s blameless. We’re not (at least I’m not). We’re simply saying that his choices, on their merit, were for the most part perfectly reasonable and sensible, given the information and circumstances. Sure, there have been some bad moves made by Cashman, Pavano and Igawa chief among them. But every GM has some players he should’ve never signed. Theo never should’ve signed Edgar Renteria, Matt Clement, or Julio Lugo and never should’ve traded for Eric Gagne. That’s just how it goes.
I don’t understand why someone as smart as you can remain as stubborn on something so simple?
For every Jimmy Key, there was a Denny Neagle and Kenny Rogers. For every Paul O’Neill, there’s a Jesse Barfield. And Tino wasn’t exactly warmly welcomed in New York. That turned out better than anyone expected.
There are certainly things for which you could legitimately criticize Cashman, but his saying that how the players perform is outside of his control isn’t one of them. But I think that list is a cherry-picked example of players you’re using to make a point. I could cherry-pick players in the reverse direction under other GMs and make the opposite point.
holy shit, baseball is more predictable than most sports. but still, there a TON of luck factor in it, do you NOT acknowledge that? if you do, how the hell can anyone be abosalutely certian of ANYTHING ?
So Steve you either
1. think that EVERYTHING in baseball is completely predictable
or
2. is completely self contradicting.
Theo never should’ve signed Edgar Renteria, Matt Clement, or Julio Lugo and never should’ve traded for Eric Gagne. That’s just how it goes.
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Lugo is indefensible but the other signings and trade made perfect sense at the time.
Who knew ahead of time that Renteria couldn’t hack it in the A.L? LaRussa said that he wouldn’t like the intensity of Boston, but that doesn’t explain his failure in Detroit, does it?
Clement was cheaper than Pavano and slotted in as a number three or four would have been fine. Injuries forced him to be used higher in the rotation, and he was fine until he nearly got killed in Tampa. Plus he made seven straight years of 30+ starts, who could have predicted that he’d break down in the second year and have such major damage?
And Gagne was outstanding in Texas, with an ERA barely over 2.00. Who could possibly predict he’d struggle so badly?
OnceIWas — that’s EXACTLY my point. Even things that, on their face, made complete sense, end up sour sometimes. I didn’t cite the Boston examples to belittle Theo, merely to point out that (1) no GM is infallible and (2) moves that are universally praised as slam-dunk no-brainers can still not work out. The fact that they don’t work out doesn’t make the logic or thought-process behind them flawed or faulty.
OK; sorry I misunderstood.
Why don’t you become the GM, since you know the best moves all the time.
OK; sorry I misunderstood.
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No apologies necessary.
Anyone with two eyes and a triple digit IQ knew Pavano was a disaster in waiting. Unfortunately, popular opinion inside and outside baseball ran contrary to this belief. As a result I assume (hope?), Cashman took the safe route and courted/signed Pavano. Randy Johnson was surely a Steinbrenner decision. Whether Cashman simply failed to stand up to Steinbrenner or rather had no shot at vetoing the move, I doubt we will ever know. Forget about the Karsays, Weavers and Dotels (though it irks me), where Cashman has truly failed is with our bench and other role players and overplaying his hand with the youngsters. When you have a $200m plus payroll, how can your opening day roster have Betemit, Ensberg, Cabrera and Duncan on it. For that matter, how can you realistically expect two very young rookie pitchers to excel in starting roles out of the box in NYC? Cashman has done a nice job rebuilding our minor league pitching (position players not so much). I suspect that this can be done with the appropriate philosophy (which he seems to have), dollars and reasonable scouting. Where he fails is as a true talent evaluator. All of his major league level moves smack of someone who is not able to evaluate talent on the field (see above). I suspect his ability to outspend has allowed him to generally pave over his mistakes (until this year?). What he does this offseason should settle the issue of his efficacy.
Every ballclub makes good and bad signing decisions. My impression is that on average the Yanks have been worse than some other teams in this respect.
Some mistakes are signing the wrong guy, paying too much or too long a contract. But, errors of omission can be just as costly. E.g., I recall LA signing Nomar for $5 million a few years ago. Nomar preferred to play in California, but if the Yanks had offered, say, $8 million they might have gotten him. He would have been a bargain at that price.
Cashman’s record on trades and free agent signings speaks for itself. It is horrendous!
Igawa Hideous Replacement for Matsuzaka!
Pavano BUST & he’s considering bringing him back?
Giambi Obvious Roid abuser. Terrible defense too.
Randy Johnson Putrid & Surly
Ponson White Trash!
Arod2 (bidding against himself, he gave 300+mil!)
Posada2 (4 years???)
Kevin Brown Washed Up Red Neck!
Farnsworth Pitiful
Ivanka Rodriguez Terrible!
Letroy Hawkins Ugggh!
Betemit Our utility guy? Doesn’t do anything good
Sexson Done~!
Hang em’ Javy Vasquez …
Traber doesn’t belong in the majors
Olendorf Cashman totally overvalued
Britton mediocre
Hungry Hungry Humberto Sanchez ~right onto the DL
Marte Underperforming NL Trash
Rasner AAAA
Victor Zambrano Washed Up
Contreras couldn’t handle NY
Dotel ,,,,
and undoubtedly more I can’t think of off the top of my head.
That’s a LOT of garbage!
Nady, Abreu, Damon and Matsui have been adequate and Mussina and Molina have been good signings; that’s it!
Disgraceful considering he had Mega Bucks to work with.
~~That is your single-biggest flaw in arguing against Cashman. If something, on its facts and merits at the time seems like the slam-dunk right thing to do, then what else is there to say? You choose a course of action based on the best information available and that’s it. If it doesn’t work out, what are you supposed to say?~~
Hey, I was born and raised in New York. That means I accept nothing for what it appears to be at face value – and I question, to some extent, everything.
When someone says “2+2=4″ – - my first reaction is “Sure, it sounds air-tight. But, how do you *really* know that ’2′ is really ’2′?”
And, that’s what I want my GM to do – when something seems right, and ‘the thing to do,’ ask yourself “What am I missing here?” And, then pound on it until you find it or realize that there’s nothing wrong.
If Cashman had pounded long enough on Pavano, Weaver, Igawa, etc. – all the ‘right things to do at the time’ – I’m sure, after a while, he would have found their flaws…at least, he should have…
~~baseball is more predictable than most sports. but still, there a TON of luck factor in it, do you NOT acknowledge that? ~~
Sure I do. Here: Cashman got really lucky on Chacon and Small in 2005. How’s that?
~~~Why don’t you become the GM, since you know the best moves all the time.~~~
This is the thing I love the most about this debate. I say that Cashman is a bad GM and many want to make this out to be a “Me vs. Him as GM” thing.
Did I ever, anywhere, write that I could be a better GM than Cashman?
No.
Never.
Not once.
Actually, I would be a terrible GM. I don’t know enough. I’m just a blogger who knows some stuff. And, there are many like me.
In fact, the job would eat me alive. And, I would be a fool to assume that I could be a big league GM.
But, that doesn’t mean I can’t spot moves that have not worked, money that’s been wasted, etc., when someone else is doing it. And, that’s what I see when I see Cashman doing his thing.
And, now, on top of that, I see him trying to lay the blame somewhere else with this line of “all you can do is light a candle” crap.
BTW, great post lodjur.
All, here’s the thing. Do I hold Cashman to a high standard? Sure, yes, I do.
When someone is getting paid $2 million a year and has $200 million to spend on getting his job done, I want him to be nearly flawless. But, hey, that’s me. Your mileage may vary.
FWIW, when someone is getting paid $5/hour and has nothing to work with, I’m much more understanding if their performance is not great.
You get what you pay for – or you should.
And, when my team is paying you $2 million a year and giving you $200 million to spend, then that sets the bar on where your performance should be…
When you have a $200m plus payroll, how can your opening day roster have Betemit, Ensberg, Cabrera and Duncan on it.
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Because the reason you have a $200m payroll is because you have Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada, Andy Pettitte, Jason Giambi, Mike Mussina, Bobby Abreu, etc on it…
So?
When people play the “OMG $200M!!!11!!1!” card, they seem to forget that the reason why the payroll is so high is because of the aforementioned players.
Of the players mentioned in the post I referenced, only Cabrera was projected to be a starter.