• WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 11/14/08

    Posted by on November 14th, 2008 · Comments (28)

    Feel free to use this post as a place for you to comment on anything Yankees-related (or within reach of tagging the bag of being Yankees-related on a decent slide) today. It could be a casual conversation offering, or, something you saw in the news, or something very detailed that you want to share that’s within the territory of Yankeeland.

    Or, comment on something that someone else has posted here in the comments…

    Have fun. Play nice. And, remember, keep it Yankees-focused.

    Comments on WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 11/14/08

    1. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      November 14th, 2008 | 9:23 am

      I got a good topic for discussion. ;)

      Since at least some Yankee fans are evaluating the Swisher acquisition in the context of whether or not it means they won’t go hard for Teixeira, here’s the question.

      Cashman says Swisher is the 1B who can also play corner OF. That means if they broke the bank a second time for Teixeira (I’m presuming the first time will be for C.C.), they’d have to move Nady, Damon or maybe Matsui to make room for Swisher (Cashman also said that Damon is a LF, not a CF now).

      Who would you want to see moved in the wake of a Teixeira signing? Who would you absolutely not want to lose if Teixeira goes?

      Personally I think Matsui would be purely a salary dump because no one knows what they are getting. Damon was better last year but is no spring chicken. I think Nady’s the least impressive ball player in the group, I’d nominate him to be moved.

    2. Corey
      November 14th, 2008 | 9:52 am

      I’d like Nady to go out of the bunch, but Damon probably has the best chance (as he’s still a useful ballplayer)

    3. November 14th, 2008 | 10:04 am

      Nady. He’s still valuable enough that if you package him with a young pitcher or two, you can prob get back a real nice player in return.

      I know the Padres were trying to get him back in the organization last season and last offseason… maybe a Hughes and Nady centerpiece for Peavy?

      just saying…

    4. Raf
      November 14th, 2008 | 10:06 am

      maybe a Hughes and Nady centerpiece for Peavy?
      ———-
      I doubt that will match what the Braves and Cubs are offering.

    5. November 14th, 2008 | 10:29 am

      ~~~Who would you want to see moved in the wake of a Teixeira signing? Who would you absolutely not want to lose if Teixeira goes?~~~

      Just playing along, why would anyone have to go? Could not Swisher play LF, Damon play CF, Nady play RF, and have Tex play 1B with Matsui as the DH…and then have Gardner as a back-up CF and defensive replacement for Damon in a close game?

    6. MJ
      November 14th, 2008 | 10:33 am

      Just playing along, why would anyone have to go? Could not Swisher play LF, Damon play CF, Nady play RF, and have Tex play 1B with Matsui as the DH…and then have Gardner as a back-up CF and defensive replacement for Damon in a close game?
      ——————
      Agreed.

      Although I’d still rather have Abreu. The lineup is better with him than without him, given the reality that Matsui and Damon can no longer really be counted on…

    7. November 14th, 2008 | 10:34 am

      “Just playing along, why would anyone have to go? Could not Swisher play LF, Damon play CF, Nady play RF, and have Tex play 1B with Matsui as the DH…and then have Gardner as a back-up CF and defensive replacement for Damon in a close game?”

      yeah, i guess its possible, but i would think everyone was working off of the assumption that Damon isnt an everyday CF anymore.

      and i think Girardi said that much the other day, reported by PeteAbe if i remember correctly.

      but yeah, in theory that could definitely work.

    8. November 14th, 2008 | 10:36 am

      “I doubt that will match what the Braves and Cubs are offering.”

      idk, if you believe what you read, what the cubs and braves are offering isnt anything to write home about, either.

      and the yankees can throw in depth at the bottom of that package if need be, given Peavy would be signed already for a couple years.

    9. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      November 14th, 2008 | 10:46 am

      I could have sworn I saw a quote of Cashman that said the same thing, Damon won’t play CF regularly, but I can’t find it right now.

      All this could be for naught anyway. Joel Sherman had this from Cashman:

      ****************************
      In fact, in an exclusive interview with The Post, Cashman strongly indicated the Yankees will not even sign Sabathia and Teixeira in tandem.

      “At the pricetags I have read, that is fantasy land, not reality land,” Cashman said yesterday of bringing in Sabathia and Teixeira. A Yankees executive said the club has not even created scenarios for assembling a 2009 roster in which it signs the most attractive starter and position player in the free-agent market.
      *****************************

      It was also implied that C.C. could cost so much that they’ll skip the next two and fill the rotation with less expensive options.

      As a Red Sox fan, I have to say that I really appreciate Hal being the money guy and still buying into Cashman’s “vision”. If it were up to Hank, they’d throw all the money in the world at both C.C. and Teix.

    10. November 14th, 2008 | 10:58 am

      ~~I could have sworn I saw a quote of Cashman that said the same thing, Damon won’t play CF regularly, but I can’t find it right now.~~

      Never trust Cashman. See the Bubba Crosby quotes before they signed Damon.

    11. Raf
      November 14th, 2008 | 11:24 am

      Just playing along, why would anyone have to go? Could not Swisher play LF, Damon play CF, Nady play RF, and have Tex play 1B with Matsui as the DH…and then have Gardner as a back-up CF and defensive replacement for Damon in a close game?
      ——-
      Then I guess by omission, Melky goes…

    12. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      November 14th, 2008 | 11:40 am

      Let me put it to you this way, Steve – do YOU regard Damon as an every day CF?

      Like I said in the earlier Swisher post, carrying Bubba had no cost. Making Swisher a role player because you sign Teix but don’t move anyone carries a high cost in his salary, or a high cost in playing Damon out of position.

    13. thenewguy
      November 14th, 2008 | 11:50 am

      Completely off-topic, but did you guys all see that Fire Joe Morgan is calling it quits? A truly sad day.

    14. November 14th, 2008 | 12:09 pm

      ~~~Let me put it to you this way, Steve – do YOU regard Damon as an every day CF?~~~

      From 8/6 through 9/21, IIRC, this year, he was the Yankees FT CF, no?

    15. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      November 14th, 2008 | 12:24 pm

      More like August 19th to September 13th, and that still doesn’t answer the question of whether you want him, in his age 35 season, to play CF in all innings of virtually all games (except late innings of ‘close’ games and planned days off)?

    16. bfriley76
      November 14th, 2008 | 12:31 pm

      Here’s another topic for debate. Apparently, the Yankees could be back in the Peavy conversation. If you could only sign one from Tex and CC. Would you rather have Peavy and Texeira or CC?

    17. November 14th, 2008 | 12:36 pm

      OnceIWasAYankeeFan – what I want doesn’t matter. But, would I want Damon in CF for 150 games? Well, it depends, what are my other options? Can’t make that call in a vacuum, can we?

    18. gphunt
      November 14th, 2008 | 12:44 pm

      I think the Yankees are better off keeping Damon in Left and keeping him on the team as a lead off hitter. If the Yankees get Texeria then that’s great. They now have two or three players that are tradeable in order to make room for him at 1b.

      Matsui (Seattle still needs a DH), Nady, and Swisher can all be traded to create room and maybe bring in a capable centerfielder. And Gardner could very likely be a serviceable CF for the next few years. The more options the better.

    19. Raf
      November 14th, 2008 | 1:08 pm

      a high cost in playing Damon out of position.
      ————-
      How so? Damon has extensive experience playing both LF & CF?

    20. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      November 14th, 2008 | 1:09 pm

      Steve, you know what the options are right now – Melky, Gardner or Damon. There is no question Damon is the worst defender, in CF, of that group. But can his bat make up for it enough?

    21. November 14th, 2008 | 1:20 pm

      ~~There is no question Damon is the worst defender, in CF, of that group. But can his bat make up for it enough?~~

      FWIW, the Yankees made the post-season a few times with Bernie’s bad D in CF and his bat in the line-up.

    22. butchie22
      November 14th, 2008 | 3:16 pm

      Once I Was, we agree again… about Teix and CC. The Yanks should make them both the top priority but Cash Man’s vision is surely not 20/20! The Yanks are making pitching a priority? CC I can see, maybe even Lowe BUT AJ? Let him fly back to BlueBirdLand and drive them crazy up there. The Yanks and Cash Man should realize that their adjustments should be in offense, not pitching.

      Their pitching was good enough last year BUT their offense? Their RISP stunk and the runs scored were down demonstrably. The Yanks are losing Abreu AND Giambi’s production and what replaces it, Swisher? Swisher is a nice 3c type of player and adds energy to a team, but he offensive production was meager last year. Teix should be added to the Yanks over AJ (who will not make it here, he hardly made it in NYC Lite,Toronto) or any other guy like Lowe. The Yanks need a very good young player like Teix or I see 3rd place or even 4th place next year….why? Cash Man’s potential adjustments to the offense seem to be unispiring. Teix is perfect for the Yanks right now, not that hayseed Burnett who should be a Blue or Black Bird not a Bomber! Aj will make Pavano look reliable.

      Also, the outfield of Nady, Damon, Swisher, Matsui, Melky and Gardner leave me cold. They need a kid like Teix that can balance this out, because Damon and Matsui are on the downswing , Gardner and Melky are never wases( jugding from Swisher weak White Sox performance he’s becoming one ,too)!

    23. butchie22
      November 14th, 2008 | 3:27 pm

      Swisher should be a glorified role player on this team no more no less. Add Teix into the mix and Swisher makes sense otherwise, it’s all a waste.

      Once I Was, I still don’t see how Teix ends up in Boston…who do they trade Youk? See that would be a shock, since Lowell is so untradeable now. The Red Sox could get a gaggle of good young players for Youk, but Lowell? They would have to pay most of the salary AND expect crumbs for Lowell right now. Lucchino(the Anti-Christ, don’t worry Cash Man has a 666 on the side of his head,too!) is harping about how the Red Sox are holding the line on ticket prices next season, so does that mean that the organization will be frugal and pick the right guys who are inexpensive and undervalued(moneyball) or shoot their load on one big one like Teix? With the Youk/Lowell duality I don’t see the Red Sox spending 22 mill a year to land Teix.

      That being said Manny will taunt the Yanks, Rays, Os and the Sox from his perch in Toronto. If Ricciardi doesn’t go after him , that would signal that he’s on the way out anyway. The AL East would be fun with the Blue Birds coming into each port with Manram at the helm. If the Mets OR the Yanks go after Manram, it would be wrong. Manny and a dress code? I could see fights with Girardi over that crap! And Manny with the Mets? Nahhh, he be a Keystone cop in relatively no time in New Shea AKA Manure Field.

    24. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      November 14th, 2008 | 3:47 pm

      If Theo gets Teix, and I am quite certain he is the number one target outside of figuring out the catcher position, he will be more than happy to see how things play out in March. The fact is that Lowell’s surgery was a success, with less damage found than expected. He’ll be ready in March and I have no problem believing that a market will exist for him by then.

      The Red Sox won’t go “frugal” – too much is off the payroll this year. They can easily add Teixeira at Manny’s level or slightly above, and come out with a lower payroll than last year, or almost exactly the same with raises to Youk and Paps.

      But the bottom line is that Theo will seriously pursue Teixeira, and figure out what to do afterwards if they get him. And it won’t be Youk who gets moved, he has too much value.

    25. Raf
      November 14th, 2008 | 4:16 pm

      I don’t know why people think that the Sox will have a hard time moving Lowell…

    26. butchie22
      November 14th, 2008 | 4:56 pm

      Raf and Once I Was, Lowell makes too much to be an easy trade and he hasn’t been the healthiest player the last two years either. He is not a spring chicken either. Boston could move Lowell, but paying all of his salary. Once I Was, put yourself in a trading partner’s shoes, why would a team want a twilight years, recently injured 13 mill a year player for? Boston will be stuck with him and that wouldn’t be a bad thing. He’s great in that park and is great on that team and took less money to play there. He’s perfectly cast for that team. That team needs middle relief if anything and trading Crisp for it wouldn’t be off the radar BUT Teix? The Sox don’t want to commit that much money to one player that’s why Henry and Co put Manram on waivers before he became public enemy No 1.

      It goes back to Teix going to the Yanks, they honestly need the lost production of Abreu AND Giambi….and Posada and Co are mostly elder statesmen. If Teix is not added, the team will struggle to make it to forth, I’m not kidding. Their offensive production diminished considerably last year AND so far the answer is Swisher! They need someone like Mark Teixeira right quick! I love people mentioning McClouth from the Pirates, he’s a nice player BUT his stats are not the greatest. The thing with so-called role players is that they need to be clutch to make up for a dearth of production. So far, Swisher (a nice player) and possibly McClouth ( a less nicer player) are the answer? 4th place is looking like a possibility because Cash Man doesn’t make the right adjustments. One of those adjustments will be Burnett. I don’t care if he goes elsewhere and stays a Yankee killer, he will still kill the Yankees when he joins up in the Bronx! I still can’t believe the stupidity of the Yankee brass on Burnett, can anyone say Pavano Part Deux?

    27. Raf
      November 14th, 2008 | 5:51 pm

      Lowell makes too much to be an easy trade and he hasn’t been the healthiest player the last two years either.
      —————–
      The ease of a Lowell trade depends on how much salary the Sox are willing to eat. Salary dump trades happen.

      As for health, he’s played in over 150 games in 5 of the last 7 seasons. I wouldn’t be too worried about his health.

    28. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      November 14th, 2008 | 7:09 pm

      And I still say that once Lowell shows he is healthy, there will be a market for him, without it being a “salary dump”. And you’re totally wrong about Teixeira. Yes, they won’t follow the Yankees to the last dollar on him, but with the revenue they have and the money off the payroll, there is no reason whatsoever not to have Teix take over Manny’s $20 million slot, and even go a little higher. Anyone can see they need a big bat going forward, even if Ortiz returns to form. Theo ain’t stupid, and John Henry isn’t a miser.

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