Cashman On Not Offering Arbitration To Pettitte & Abreu
Via the AP:
The Yankees declined salary arbitration with all eight of their former players who became free agents, a group that includes pitcher Andy Pettitte and right fielder Bobby Abreu.
Both made $16 million last season, so the move was not a surprise. By declining arbitration, the Yankees forfeited draft-pick compensation if they sign with other teams.
Brian Cashman didn’t rule out re-signing the pair.
“The determination that we made today was to make sure we control what amount we’d be spending,” Cashman said in a recorded audio statement. “We did not want to put ourselves in a position of having that determined by a third party without knowing what that figure would be.”
In a WasWatching.com exclusive, we’ve obtained a photo of the device Cashman used to playback his “recorded audio statement.” Here’s the photo:
According to my quick research, the only other “Type A” free agents (besides Pettitte, Abreu and Mussina) who were not offered arbitration were Edgar Renteria, Trevor Hoffman, Russ Springer, Bobby Howry, Kerry Wood and Adam Dunn.
“Type A” free agents Brian Fuentes, Jason Varitek, Oliver Perez, Raul Ibanez, Orlando Hudson, Juan Cruz, Manny Ramirez, Derek Lowe, Mark Teixeira, Darren Oliver, Francisco Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, CC Sabathia, Ben Sheets, and A.J. Burnett were all offered arbitration.
Think about that. Oliver Perez and Darren Oliver were offered arbitration and Andy Pettitte was not. Jason Varitek and Raul Ibanez were offered arbitration and Bobby Abreu was not. Wacky, huh?
From what I understand, even if they go to arbitration, the Yanks can cut these players in ST or otherwise move them. The decision not to offer these players arbitration I do find a bit odd.
Steve.. I don’t really agree with all you got to say about Cashman. But, this one appears to be a real howler from Cash. What is the probability that Abreu would not get a multi year deal. My guess…Zero.
When the Yankees make all the noise about scouting, recruting and developing young talent, they should as well walk the talk. They have just wasted two Top 100 picks as far as I go.
And who is to take the blame if one of them ends up being the next Joba.
I don’t want to judge things before they play out all the way, and there is certainly a lot of time left in this offseason. However, on its face this makes zero sense. Why not just cover your bases with mussina? Is there really no market for abreu? The only thing I could see is if they have made the decision to bring both pettitte and abreu back and want to do it for less money annually, which I would say is unlikely. Hopefully this will all make sense in a few months. If not, this will be a bad job. We could have crushed next years draft, now well probably end up with less picks than we have right now.
I don’t understand the hysterics. For every Type A free agent we’d sign from another team, we’d lose a draft pick gained from offering arbitration to any Type A we have who leaves our team. So, hypothetically, if Pettitte and Abreu walked after receiving arbitration, and we signed Sabathia and Burnett (or Lowe, Teixeira, etc.) it’s a wash, as there is no net gain or loss of draft picks.
As it stands now having offered arbitration to no one, if Pettitte and Abreau walk and we sign Sabathia and Burnett (or Lowe, Teixeira, etc.), it’s still a wash. Remember, our only drafts picks in the first round are protected (the 2 picks from last year who didn’t sign).
Whether we offered arbitration or not, we have no net gain or loss of drafts picks (assuming we sign at least 2 Type A’s).
Is there an error in my analysis? Is there a significant consideration I haven’t accounted for?
Steve, none of those players would make the amount of money pettitte and Abreu would have made in arbitration. Pettitte would get his 16 million if not more and Abreu may have gotten 18 million due having a pretty good season. That’s 30+ million added to the payroll that the Yankees want to try and control this year.
It’s not our money. The Yankees just built a billion dollar stadium. They could be hurting a bit in the financial department. These orders could be coming from Hal or Lonn Trust. You have no idea.
Whether we offered arbitration or not, we have no net gain or loss of drafts picks (assuming we sign at least 2 Type A’s).
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That’s the problem, the assumption.
A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
At the very least, if Pettitte and Abreu sign somewhere, they get draft picks. If they accept arbitration, the Yanks can keep them or move/cut them if they feel they’re costing too much. In the case of Mussina, they could do it as a formality.
It amazes me that Yankee fans are so quick to dismiss Bobby Abreu as yesterday’s news. Is he the same player he was a few years ago? No. But he’s certainly better offensively than Xavier Nady (an average player if there ever was one) and, considering the Yankee lineup regressed badly in 2008, I don’t see why the Yanks would want to cut into their potential offensive output even more by trotting out an impotent lineup in 2009. If Abreu were to accept arbitration and take a one year/$16-17M contract, why would that be so bad for the Yankees? Abreu is a relatively safe bet for 2009 and he’d be a hedge against near-certain disappointment from Matsui/Nady/Damon/Gardner in the OF next year.
MJ: Bobby Abreu, like you said, is still a productive offensive player. However the last two years have seen his batting average, walks, on base percentage, slugging percentage and stolen base percentage all dip under his career average at age 34. Some of them have been a pretty heavy dip too which suggests he is rapidly declining each year. Bobby is still productive, but when comparing him to Xavier Nady, who will be 30 and many believe is finding himself as a ballplayer and in his prime, Nady can have a very productive year at a younger age, much cheaper salary and much better defensively (which is a huge reason Abreu is expendable.) The Yanks are trying to get younger, cheaper, more athletic and go after pitching and defense so they can begin to prepare for reducing runs scored on them. Nady in no means is an amazing defender, but he is certainly better than Abreu.
MJ – FWIW, I’ve seen stats that suggest that Abreu allows enough runs to score, with his terrible defense, that it offsets his RCAA – hence, on the whole, making him just a league average player, again, FWIW…
YankCrank/Steve – Abreu is declining, I know that. I also know that his defense and offense offset to create a roughly average player. I guess I’m willing to live with that because I know that Nady’s upside is Abreu’s downside. What about Nady excites people? He had a miracle half-season in Pittsburgh, got traded to New York, had a nice start, and then promptly went into the toilet. Nady finished the year with the Yanks in line with the rest of his career.
Like I’ve been saying all winter, if the thought of a Damon/[Melky/Gardner]/Nady OF appeals to you…oh man…
MJ: I wouldn’t say that the Damon/Melky-Gardner/Nady outfield especially excites me either, you’re right about that one. The only thing that makes me ok with it is the Yankees are very much in an outfield transition period. Next year we lose Damon, Matsui and Nady to free agency in hopes that Gardner, A-Jax and whatever free agent we go after (Holliday, Bay?) can supply a young, potent and athletic outfield for the future. What the current outfield does is supply speed, defense, and an average amount of offensive production to make it serviceable and still allow spots to open for our kids next year when they’re ready. It’s certainly not the outfield we had with Bernie, Pauly and assorted talented left fielders but it will do for this year.
Next year we lose Damon, Matsui and Nady to free agency in hopes that Gardner, A-Jax and whatever free agent we go after (Holliday, Bay?) can supply a young, potent and athletic outfield for the future.
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If we agree that the OF is in transition, all the more reason to keep Abreu for one more year at a reasonable salary (OR get the draft picks if he declines) in order to bridge the gap to 2010 when new, potentially more dynamic outfielders become available.
And as far as Gardner goes…um…he can’t really hit at all. Why on earth would any future OF include him as anything more than a 4th?
MJ: You’re going in circles. We already covered why Nady is a better choice than Abreu so I won’t waste your time and type it again. Just go up 5 posts to see. As for Gardner, we don’t know if he’ll be a good player or not but there’s only one way to find out. He’s excelled at every level so why not see if he can continue at the major league level? At worst he can be, like you said, a 4th outfielder or a speed option off the bench but it’s better to explore our own internal, affordable, cost-controlled options instead of spending millions on others. If Gardner sucks, there are a number of attractive outfield free agents next year (Crawford, Holliday, Bay) to pursue.
“If we agree that the OF is in transition, all the more reason to keep Abreu for one more year at a reasonable salary”
$16-$18 million for one year is not a reasonable salary for a middle-aged, declining corner outfielder. There are a high number of those type players who can be had for far less money.
$16-$18 million for one year is not a reasonable salary for a middle-aged, declining corner outfielder. There are a high number of those type players who can be had for far less money.
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Like who?
MJ: You’re going in circles. We already covered why Nady is a better choice than Abreu so I won’t waste your time and type it again. Just go up 5 posts to see. As for Gardner, we don’t know if he’ll be a good player or not but there’s only one way to find out. He’s excelled at every level so why not see if he can continue at the major league level? At worst he can be, like you said, a 4th outfielder or a speed option off the bench but it’s better to explore our own internal, affordable, cost-controlled options instead of spending millions on others. If Gardner sucks, there are a number of attractive outfield free agents next year (Crawford, Holliday, Bay) to pursue.
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I don’t agree with you on Nady. I think he’s fine as part of an OF with Abreu but he’s not a viable replacement for him. Not when Damon/Gardner are the other two outfielders paired with him. But fine, we agree to disagree on Nady.
As far as Gardner, since when does a .774 minor league OPS represent excellence at every level? I’m all for giving him a chance to prove that he belongs in the big leagues but I’m not convinced he’ll amount to anything more than a 4th/5th OF type. His best attribute is his speed on the basepaths and in the field. He doesn’t have a great arm and he can’t hit enough to play everyday as a starter.
Crawford is signed through 2011. Holliday won’t be worth the money he’ll be asking for and Bay is defensively challenged. I’d rather give Teixeira that money today than pay Holliday/Bay what they might ask for next year.
MJ: I screwed up the Crawford projection, i’ll take the fall on that one. However this is where I disagree with you on Gardner.
I understand that Gardner hasn’t fooled anybody into thinking he will be a viable, above-average outfielder. But he’s a guy that has clear strengths that can help the team as an every-day player. At every level since 2005 he has started slow then posted impressive numbers after his brief stint (.323/.433/.418 with 30 steals in 63 games for Class A, .300/.392/.419 in 54 games with 18 steals at Trenton, .296/.414/.422 this last year with 37 steals in 94 games for Scranton). That clearly doesn’t make him outstanding, but if he can even hit .275 and steal 30-40 bags than he is valuable for the Yankees–and he has done just that at almost all 3 levels. His track record at every level has shown he takes time to adjust and eventually excels, so why not try it at the major league level?
Agree to disagree on Abreu.
MJ: I agree with you on everything you said about Abreu, Nady, Gardner, Holliday, Bay, and Teixeira. You can officially be scared now, haha.
His track record at every level has shown he takes time to adjust and eventually excels, so why not try it at the major league level?
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On a limited basis, I’m all for trying and seeing if your theory works with Gardner. But even as you were citing Gardner’s MiLB stats you were making my case for me. He never posted a SLG higher than .422 in his 1456 MiLB AB’s. That does not bode well if we’re talking about a guy getting 600 MLB AB’s.
Melky Cabrera: 1489 MiLB AB’s .296/.347/.420
Brett Gardner: 1456 MiLB AB’s .291/.389/.385
Those two players’ MiLB numbers look awfully similar to me. They’re both adequate 4th/5th OF’ers at the MLB level.
Essentially if Gardner ends up batting .275 with 30 steals, what exactly does that mean to the Yankees? I’m not the world’s biggest sabermetrics guy but I’m not sure that .275 with 30 steals translates into a whole lot of value, even with better than average defense.
You can officially be scared now, haha.
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Hey, at least we agree once in a while, right Antone?
As far as offseason moves go, we seem to be of the same opinion, especially on the Outfield or lack of Outfield they have right now.
As far as offseason moves go, we seem to be of the same opinion, especially on the Outfield or lack of Outfield they have right now.
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Agree completely. I can’t imagine how a team that scored nearly 200 fewer runs last season can think that a Damon/[Melky-Gardner]/Nady OF is sufficient when you also factor in the question marks surrounding Posada and Matsui’s health, Giambi’s departure, Cano’s regression, and Jeter’s rapid aging.
This potential lineup screams “ABREU-TEXEIRA!” as far as I’m concerned.
This potential lineup screams “ABREU-TEXEIRA!” as far as I’m concerned.
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Abreu-Texiera-Dunn…
Abreu-Texiera-Dunn…
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Where would you put Dunn?
Where would you put Dunn?
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LF – RF – 1B – DH. It’s a matter of time before Matsui or Damon gets hurt
LF – RF – 1B – DH. It’s a matter of time before Matsui or Damon gets hurt
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Agree. But in that case, doesn’t it make sense to trade one of them to make room for Dunn? Otherwise, you’re talking about a starting OF of Dunn-Damon-Nady (awful defensively).
Sure, you could trade one of them (or Nady). You can also rotate the players around, mixing and matching them.
Nothing wrong with creative roster usage
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