Via Bryan Hoch:
Brian Cashman left the Winter Meetings campus at noon PT on Monday, summoned for a short ride up the Strip by CC Sabathia for a second chat with the Yankees’ top pitching target.
Even though the general manager took time to engage the left-hander, the club’s other business is not on hold. According to reports, the Yankees are also ready to engage in full pursuit of free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett, whose agents arrived Monday at the Bellagio.
“I’m willing to move on something if I feel the price is right now, regardless of CC,” Cashman said. “I’m trying to find that common ground with the agent and the player. Up until this date, that hasn’t happened yet.”
But another offer may be in the works for Burnett, as the Yankees are said to be willing to go beyond the reported four-year, $60 million offer the Braves have put forth, according to reports on ESPN.com and SI.com.
The ESPN report said agent Darek Braunecker and partner Mark Rodgers arrived in Las Vegas on Monday afternoon and are expected to begin full-scale meetings with clubs regarding Burnett starting on Tuesday.
Cashman said that he is ready to greet any player who wishes to talk with the Yankees.
“I’m more than open,” Cashman said. “I prefer meeting with players with their agents instead of doing it the other way. You get a better sense of people and it’s a better process for me.”
And so many laughed at George King.
Me? Anything over three years at $40 million for Burnett is a huge risk. But, then again, signing A.J. Burnett for something like five years at $80 million would sit real nice on Brian Cashman’s resume. All you have to do is squeeze it in somewhere between his picking up Jeff Weaver, Carl Pavano and Kei Igawa…
30 Responses to “Yanks Chasing Burnett?”
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December 9th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Weaver & Igawa could be justified. Pavano, not so much.
As for Burnett, as I said in the other thread;
“it’s ridiculous to offer him a long term contract. I’d make an offer to Ben Sheets before Burnett. Hell, I’d make an offer to Kris Benson, Matt Clement, or Bartolo Colon before I’d make an offer to Burnett. Hell, I’d sign Farnsworth with the intention of making him a starter before I’d sign Burnett…”
December 9th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I actually think, when you take a look back at the signings, trade, etc, whenever they happened in the market they happened, at the price they happened at, Pavano and Weaver were actually justified moves… Igawa is definitely the one that sticks out as the ehhhhhh move.
and lets not get silly here. I might not personally want Burnett to pitch for the Yankees at a 5 year/$80 million commitment, but that doesnt mean he’s not a very good pitcher. he’s got great stuff; just cant trust the health of that arm, though.
from what Feinsand apparently has reported, the Yanks are readying a 2 year offer for Sheets for around $30 million, with the potential for going 3 years to seal a deal. i would much rather see that then sign Burnett for 5 years.
and taking a risk on Sheets, if you can get Sabathia reeled in, makes a lot of sense.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:03 am
//And so many laughed at George King.//
Yeah, I’m just going to keep on laughing at him, if that all right.
As for Burnett, I think he’s being somewhat underrated by fans. Which isn’t to say I’d sign him. Dude’s an injury-risk. But he’s also a good pitcher when healthy. Let’s just say, Cashman could do worse for a mid-rotation starter.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Over the last four years, its Burnett who has managed to pitch far more often than Sheets (112 starts vs 94; two 30 start seasons vs 1) while on the other hand, Sheets has had the better performance when he does start – lower WHIP, his ERA+ in the 120s. But how much of that is pitching in the no-DH league?
Bottom line, you shouldn’t sign either one unless you are very confident that your pitching depth will make up for the inevitable DL stints. Sheets is the worse injury risk; Burnett is probably unsuited to the pressure-cooker environment.
Pick your poison.
That’s why Lowe makes a little more sense, if his demands come down to three years or so. No way four or five at the dollars he wants, but a shorter term contract for consistent performance and health, and a genuine enjoyment of the northeast baseball experience? Makes more sense to me than throwing money at two guys virtually guaranteed to fail or get hurt or both.
One observation though: everyone is taking note that Lowe hasn’t missed a start in seven years or whatever. Well, we all know that pitching is an unnatural motion and that pitching injuries are a question of when, not if. And you know who had gone seven years without missing a start and seemed like a lock to provide 30 starts/200 innings in the future?
Matt Clement, who saved all up of his injuries for one huge blowout, and can now be picked up in the dollar rack in Vegas.
So really there are no guarantees with Lowe either.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:58 am
The Yanks shouldn’t waste even a glance at Lowe. For $13M and a one-year commiment, the Yanks can re-sign Andy Pettitte who more or less offers what Derek Lowe offers: namely 200 IP at league-average (or above). The Yanks are looking to add a potential #1 pitcher (Sabathia) since they already have a good #2 (Wang). Pettitte as the #3 at a far smaller cost is what the Yanks should be thinking here, not Derek Lowe.
Toss in the fact that Lowe was piss-poor in his last season in the AL four seasons ago and I just don’t see why anyone in the AL would be in a hurry to throw all that money at Lowe. In my opinion, he’s a perfect fit for the Mets. They need a reliable innings eater behind Santana and ahead of Pelfrey.
December 9th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Burnett is probably unsuited to the pressure-cooker environment.
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He was facing the Yankees and Red Sox all the time and does well, so I don’t see how this can be a valid statement.
December 9th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Weaver & Igawa could be justified. Pavano, not so much. Quote
Unh? Pavano was courted by a gazillion teams AND was actually offered more money by the red Sox and he chose to sign with New York.Pavano actually pitched decently in the post season which gives give an edge over Weaver and Igawa for an eternal playoff team like the Yanks. Weaver versus Lilly? That was absolutely dopey. You had a guy that could pitch in NYC and you trade him for a guy that pitched in a low pressure situation AND the ultimate pitcher’s park. Stupid three way trade. LIlly comes in again with Igawa. The Yanks could have signed Lilly who can pitch in the division(both with New York and with Toronto) and Cash Man goes after the unknown quantity. Lilly was a proven quantity and Cash Man goes for the middling Japanese pitcher.
Antone, you didn’t pay attention to the other teams he pitched against did you? His ERA was very high for someone who has so much stuff. There were games last year where he just blew up. He doesn’t do that well against the rest of the AL, so why even bother. Quite simply put, Burnett cannot handle the pressure of NYC. Read the Blue Jay fan sites and the toronto papers on a regular basis and see how soft Burnett is. HE had problems playing in Toronto and Toronto is low profile for baseball! He is comfortable with his Marlins pitching coach(Arnsberg) and Halladay his buddy up there. In addition, Burnett has never pitched a big game in his life( where was he during the Marlin’s miracle of 2003?). Burnett has be a great dominating pitcher like Doc Halladay every once in awhile and most other times can be a mediocre pitcher. He comes down here, he will make Igawa look like a bargain…….
Lowe makes more sense for the Yanks because of the durability and his great playoff showings. Yeah, he hasn’t been in the AL for sometime BUT he doesn’t get a hangnail like Burnett every other week either. The Yanks have had enough of shelling out money for the all these unknown quantities.
December 9th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Burnett still was an above average pitcher in the AL East. I don’t find the statement that he can’t handle the pressure to be valid or else he would suck every time he came to Yankee Stadium, which is not true. I would like to see those links from the Toronto papers that say he can’t handle the pressure. I don’t want him on the Yankees because of the health risk, but I don’t think saying he can’t handle the pressure is valid either.
December 9th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Antone, I’m talking about the pressure in the market, from the fans (and for Yankee players, from the ownership). Pitching five times a season in Fenway and the Stadium isn’t the same as being signed, for big dollars, to be a superstar in front of demanding fans.
That’s the pressure I’m talking about. It was lacking in Toronto but wouldn’t be lacking in New York or Boston.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I should also add the pressure from the media. The New York media especially the tabs put a lot of guys under a microscope and that’s something Burnett didn’t have to deal with in Toronto. Same thing in Boston but I seriously doubt that Theo is looking at Burnett quite the same way. In fact, I think theo wants to get another former Marlin and sign Brad Penny to a low-risk, high-reward deal. I wouldn’t mind using Penny as a 4th or 5th starter with the youngsters as backups.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Pavano was courted by a gazillion teams AND was actually offered more money by the red Sox and he chose to sign with New York
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Pavano was a stupid signing, and the fact that so many other teams were chasing after him does not change the fact that it was a stupid signing.
http://tinyurl.com/ynpke7
Describes Pavano as “a pitcher with a five-year history of arm injuries, just two healthy major league seasons, and just one above average season.”
December 9th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Antone, I’m talking about the pressure in the market, from the fans (and for Yankee players, from the ownership). Pitching five times a season in Fenway and the Stadium isn’t the same as being signed, for big dollars, to be a superstar in front of demanding fans.
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He wouldn’t be a superstar. The Yanks already have those…A-Rod, Jeter, Mo, etc get most of the attention. Burnett would not be seen as a savior by the fans or anything close to it. Sabathia if he signs here would have to deal with the most pressure. Plus, we still have no proof that Burnett can’t handle the pressure.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Pavano actually pitched decently in the post season which gives give an edge over Weaver and Igawa for an eternal playoff team like the Yanks.
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Witness Kenny Rogers and Jeff Weaver in the 2006 postseason. Do you think the Yanks want any of them back? Look at Wang in the 2007 postseason, do you think the Yanks want to punt him?
December 9th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Lilly was a proven quantity and Cash Man goes for the middling Japanese pitcher.
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You may want to look at Lilly’s numbers. Better yet, run a search on this site about Lilly when he became a FA.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
That’s the pressure I’m talking about. It was lacking in Toronto but wouldn’t be lacking in New York or Boston.
I should also add the pressure from the media. The New York media especially the tabs put a lot of guys under a microscope and that’s something Burnett didn’t have to deal with in Toronto.
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If Brunett can pitch, he can pitch, no matter the location.
This “pressure from the media” angle is a bit overblown, and the statistics of players before, during, and after their time in NY backs it up.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
This “pressure from the media” angle is a bit overblown, and the statistics of players before, during, and after their time in NY backs it up.
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Amen.
December 9th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
This “pressure from the media” angle is a bit overblown, and the statistics of players before, during, and after their time in NY backs it up.
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Amen.
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I honestly think it’s more the big money pressure than fans and media. You see it in a lot of sports, when certain players get big paydays, that first year they seem to try TOO hard to do good, or the team doesn’t know how to fit them in the right way. It’s just like if any of us got a big raise or promoted, we would probably try too hard to show we deserved it. Of course there’s always those that probably relax after they get their payday too. Those are the players you really need to worry about.
December 9th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Raf, you lost me again…on Lilly? Are you serious? This must be a joke. Igawa had zero experience in the AL East AND MLB at all. Lilly could pitch in the AL EAST AND didn’t he win something like 17 games back in 2006? C’mon quit while you are behind……Bad signing by Cash Man, Lilly was on a playoff team these past two years while Igawa is a 50 mill plus waste in the minors.
This is a problem when fans don’t see what happens in other markets(mediawise) or only listen to their own team’s stations. I get the Fan 590 network from Toronto at night and I’ve heard their baseball guy Mike Wilner on it. Burnett has had problems with this guy and he’s a homer! Not only is he an asshole, but he is an unreliable asshole. Pressure? Toronto is a hockey town where baseball get short shrift, don’t you really think that Aj would be ripped for being an asshole AND soft in Philly/Boston/NYC ? Burnett has 100 million dollar talent and a ten cent head!The Toronto radio announcers( not that homerish compared to Suzyn and Sterling) have been critical of Burnett because of his lack of constinency. To add insult to injury, he pitches against other teams other than Boston and NYYs. Guess what? When he is not injured (which is often),he is not that impressive(seemingly against NY and Boston he is).
December 9th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Lilly was on a playoff team these past two years
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Lilly being on a playoff team doesn’t seem relevant. Eric Gagne was on a playoff team the past two years too and he flat-out sucks.
December 9th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Raf, you lost me again…on Lilly? Are you serious? This must be a joke. Igawa had zero experience in the AL East AND MLB at all. Lilly could pitch in the AL EAST AND didn’t he win something like 17 games back in 2006?
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*sigh*
I ran that quick search on the site, came up with this;
“First, forget Ted Lilly. Yes, he’s a great guy. But, he’s somewhat injury-prone and he’s basically had one very good year in his career – in 2004. Plus, his BB/9 IP rate has gone up each of the last 3 years. At 31 in 2007, he’s trending the wrong way.”
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“Here are the major SP Free Agents out there this off-season: Ted Lilly, Tony Armas Jr., Mark Mulder, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Greg Maddux, Randy Wolf, Jason Schmidt, and Barry Zito.
Of this group, only Clemens, Pettitte, Schmidt, and Zito are “top of the rotation guys.” Maybe the Yankees can sign one of these pitchers – but, it’s probably 50-50 at best – unless they want to overpay through the nose.”
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“Over this time, Lilly has pitched like a Jarrod Washburn (Raf’s note; take a gander @ USS Mariner, see what they have to say about Washburn) and Meche has pitched like a Kyle Lohse. Between the two, I would take Lilly – he’s only had one bad year (2005) whereas Meche was bad in two (2004 & 2005).
But, Lilly only helps the Yankees as a back-of-the-rotation guy. He’s not going to fill the need of being a #2 or #3 starter in 2007.”
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A thread comment by MJ
“Why does everyone want Ted Lilly on the Yanks? What is the fascination with him? 21-19, 4.46 ERA, 1.41 WHIP vs. AL East in his career. Does that sound really exciting to people?”
Here we have a case of a known mediocrity, vs an unknown. Surprisingly, Cashman went with the unknown.
Regarding Igawa?
http://tinyurl.com/48fn43
http://tinyurl.com/4pt4rx
http://tinyurl.com/526lgn
http://tinyurl.com/3z68kz
http://tinyurl.com/3pkhrd
Quit while you’re ahead, butchie…
December 9th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
This is a problem when fans don’t see what happens in other markets(mediawise) or only listen to their own team’s stations.
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The problem begins with them listening to sports radio…
The numbers are there for everyone to see. Doesn’t take a sports radio hack to look at the numbers or look inside the numbers and come to a reasonable conclusion.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
I am new this board and I truly don’t want to start off on the wrong foot, but from what i am reading here there are way too many Cashman supporters.. Now, before anyone goes on a rant, I am new so I am learning the rules as I go along.. But, as a Yankee fan, I am so sick of that pencil pushing pin head GM we have.. Just to be reminded of the past moves he has made keeps me up at nights.. Sleeping pills just don;t work for me knowing this story book franchise is running a shore with a GM who knows less about talent than I can hit a major league curve ball..Cashman has received way too much credit for the past that Gene Michael and Bob Watson put in place.. With the blues prints these two find baseball minds left cashman, the yankees should had had at least 6 or 7 rings!!.. But to the case on hand about AJ Burnett.. I wouldn’t offer that guy a minor league contract more less 5 years near 60 million.. Ben Sheets?? . What are the Yankees a team to care for a pitching MASH unit? Why not ask Mike Hampton if he would like a multi year deal too..What Cashman has to learn to do which every GM does is learn to trade.. .. Now that might be too much to ask from him. but after all, that’s what separates the men from the boys.. I say Yankee fans, enough is enough,, Either this guy has to go or we might as well be called the KC Royal of the east..
December 9th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
With the blues prints these two find baseball minds left cashman, the yankees should had had at least 6 or 7 rings!!.
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Yep, and Rivera doesn’t blow a save in the 01 Series, Wells back doesn’t act up in the 03 Series, Rivera doesn’t blow saves in games 4 & 5 of the 04 ALCS, ARod doesn’t GIDP in the 05 ALDS, Wang performs like he’s supposed to in the 07 ALDS, that may very well be the case.
December 9th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Yep, and Rivera doesn’t blow a save in the 01 Series, Wells back doesn’t act up in the 03 Series, Rivera doesn’t blow saves in games 4 & 5 of the 04 ALCS, ARod doesn’t GIDP in the 05 ALDS, Wang performs like he’s supposed to in the 07 ALDS, that may very well be the case.
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I was wondering how long it would take for someone to come to Cashman’s rescue.. But since you decided to bring this up .. I can easily sum your arguement this way.. If we had the pitching we needed we wouldn’t need to worry about A-Rod or Mo and for the matter Wang.. My point is cashman was left with the blueprint which by definition is something to build off.. Now, your arguement although good points, Cashman, has since our last postseason appearance done nothing but work against the ideology Watson and Stick left him. His moves and lack of moves has us back to a third place team!. He has wasted more money on pitchers who have blown up than any other GM in baseball history.. Look, if your comfortable with third place finish.. Then fine.. I know I’m not and signing guys like Burnett,Sheets or Lowe.. Well, I know Stick and Watson wouldn’t do it.. But, something tells me Cashman will and if by some miracle we find our way back into the playoffs with this M.A.S.H unit of pitchers, I would be interested to know if you will blame A-Rod or Mo and Wang again?..
December 9th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
But, something tells me Cashman will and if by some miracle we find our way back into the playoffs with this M.A.S.H unit of pitchers, I would be interested to know if you will blame A-Rod or Mo and Wang again?..
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You seem to fail to realize that the Yanks made the playoffs with this MASH unit of pitchers in 04, 05, 06, and 07. The reason the Yanks didn’t make the playoffs in 08 is because the Yanks scored 200+ runs less than the year before.
Wang had a pretty good 07. He blew up in the playoffs. Rivera had a pretty good 2004, saving 53 games, he blew 2 of them in the ALCS.
You just can’t tell with these things.
December 9th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
I am new this board
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Welcome!
December 9th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
To take a line from Theo.. Shoot for 95 wins and hope for the best in the playoffs.. Do you think with a staff of Burnett or Sheet, Wang and fill in who else you want.. We can get to 95 wins??.. Cashman’s only shot of the postseason for this organization is to make a trade for a stud pitcher.. Unless CC changes his mind.. I just don’t see us there.. And this is where my frustration with Cashman is.. He is not good at all with evaluating pitching.. And that my friend separates the men from the boys..We have a better chance with signing Tex and going after a stud center fielder and pray we win lots of 7-6 ballgames. Its starting to look more and more like another repeat of 2008.. Is this what Yankee fans want from their GM??.. I think you know my answer…
December 9th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Do you think with a staff of Burnett or Sheet, Wang and fill in who else you want.. We can get to 95 wins??..
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Considering they won 94 games with the same staff in 07, sure why not?
Upgrade the pitching all you want, but the 08 staff performed similar to the 07 staff. The offense didn’t. The offense was the reason the Yanks missed the playoffs.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Another repeat of 2008 would be getting below avg production from SS, C, CF & 2B
December 10th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
[...] I still feel the same way about the Burnett thing as I did two days ago. But, then again, the Braves are no fools and they seem hot and heavy for him too… December 10, 2008 | Filed Under Trap Door Items [...]