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	<title>Comments on: Cashman 2006-08: His &#8220;Plan&#8221; Cost Yanks Half-Billion Dollars</title>
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	<description>Holy Cow! We never take cannoli from a huckleberry.</description>
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		<title>By: Madden: Cashman&#8217;s Moves Right On The Money</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-234951</link>
		<dc:creator>Madden: Cashman&#8217;s Moves Right On The Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-234951</guid>
		<description>[...] let&#8217;s forget why Brian Cashman had to go out and spend a half-billion dollars to acquire Sabathia, Burnett and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] let&#8217;s forget why Brian Cashman had to go out and spend a half-billion dollars to acquire Sabathia, Burnett and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Same Ol&#8217;, Same Ol&#8217;, But Different?</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-211061</link>
		<dc:creator>Same Ol&#8217;, Same Ol&#8217;, But Different?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-211061</guid>
		<description>[...] games, why does it feel like things in Yankeeland are not going all that great now? Is because of a half-billion dollars worth of spending this off-season led to higher expectations? Or, is it just because the Yankees have played so poorly in their last [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] games, why does it feel like things in Yankeeland are not going all that great now? Is because of a half-billion dollars worth of spending this off-season led to higher expectations? Or, is it just because the Yankees have played so poorly in their last [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Prospect Poop : WasWatching.com</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-97138</link>
		<dc:creator>Prospect Poop : WasWatching.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-97138</guid>
		<description>[...] all, did the Yankees not have to spend a half-billion dollars this off-season to fill big league needs at first base and two starting pitcher [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all, did the Yankees not have to spend a half-billion dollars this off-season to fill big league needs at first base and two starting pitcher [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-79685</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-79685</guid>
		<description>But show me the equivalent case of a Dustin Pedroia, a player regarded as an excellent prospect who nevertheless gets off to a terrible start, and the team still stayed with him, and didn’t bury him in the minor leagues.
----------------
Can&#039;t really do that; is that a Red Sox thing, or a MLB thing?  How many teams (contending or otherwise) stick with a struggling prospect?  A brief slump isn&#039;t struggling, a season like the one Melky &amp; Cano put up in 08 was struggling.  A team will send down a player for more seasoning (which may have been the case with Cabrera in 2005; Bernie was still the primary CF, with Bubba Crosby backing him up; Tony Womack was with the team as well, playing LF &amp; CF.  Matsui &amp; Sheffield were in the corners.  It can be argued that the Yanks rather Melky play every day in Columbus than rot on the bench in NY), but I don&#039;t think that means they&#039;re buried.  I guess it could be argued that with the acquisition of Damon after the 05 season, Melky was buried (Matsui-Damon-Sheffield, Crosby &amp; Co backing up)

Hughes &amp; Kennedy still figure into the Yanks&#039; plans. They were not only demoted, but suffered injuries.  They weren&#039;t buried, but told to work on a few things in the minors.  Actually, I guess Kennedy was buried, but I think that had as much to do with his attitude as it did with his performance.

As for Rivera, 9 of his first 10 games were starts (2 stints in the rotation in 95).  Also looks as if he came up for good in August of that year.  Your timeline is also inaccurate, Wetteland was traded to the Yanks before the &#039;95 season, Rivera was still a starter in the minors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_79685','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_79685"><p>But show me the equivalent case of a Dustin Pedroia, a player regarded as an excellent prospect who nevertheless gets off to a terrible start, and the team still stayed with him, and didn’t bury him in the minor leagues.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Can&#8217;t really do that; is that a Red Sox thing, or a MLB thing?  How many teams (contending or otherwise) stick with a struggling prospect?  A brief slump isn&#8217;t struggling, a season like the one Melky &amp; Cano put up in 08 was struggling.  A team will send down a player for more seasoning (which may have been the case with Cabrera in 2005; Bernie was still the primary CF, with Bubba Crosby backing him up; Tony Womack was with the team as well, playing LF &amp; CF.  Matsui &amp; Sheffield were in the corners.  It can be argued that the Yanks rather Melky play every day in Columbus than rot on the bench in NY), but I don&#8217;t think that means they&#8217;re buried.  I guess it could be argued that with the acquisition of Damon after the 05 season, Melky was buried (Matsui-Damon-Sheffield, Crosby &amp; Co backing up)</p>
<p>Hughes &amp; Kennedy still figure into the Yanks&#8217; plans. They were not only demoted, but suffered injuries.  They weren&#8217;t buried, but told to work on a few things in the minors.  Actually, I guess Kennedy was buried, but I think that had as much to do with his attitude as it did with his performance.</p>
<p>As for Rivera, 9 of his first 10 games were starts (2 stints in the rotation in 95).  Also looks as if he came up for good in August of that year.  Your timeline is also inaccurate, Wetteland was traded to the Yanks before the &#8217;95 season, Rivera was still a starter in the minors.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan3457</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-79353</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan3457</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 05:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-79353</guid>
		<description>Raf, you&#039;re usually about as good an analyst around here as anyone, but I have to disagree with you...

Wang and Cano were both desperation callups. They stuck because the obeyed the Golden Rule of Yankees Prospects: &quot;Play well immediately, then get better, because if you have a slump in your 1st 3 months, you&#039;re out of the lineup, and back in the minors, or traded.&quot;

Cabrera&#039;s 1st trial was also an emergency callup, and he cost them a game, and was buried for a full year. Hughes, after pitching decently from August through October in 2007, got exactly 6 major league starts, got hurt, and was promptly buried until late September.

Like Cano and Wang, Chamberlain&#039;s callup was a desperation move to short up the pen, and he too obeyed the Golden Rule. Kennedy may have buried himself until 2010 with his performance last year.

Jeter was not a desperation call-up, but he too obeyed the Golden Rule, and was lucky enough to have a 1st year manager who was hired to replace a popular manager, and thus had extra rope to give a rookie, in case that rookie had struggled, which he didn&#039;t.

Rivera was a starter; the team quickly saw he couldn&#039;t start because he didn&#039;t have a worthwhile 2nd pitch. They put him in the pen where he was used infrequently, and only a September streak moved him into a key role, but even then, Buck wouldn&#039;t trust him with his fate on the line. Then they brought in Wetteland to be the closer, and gave Rivera a year of setup.

Contreras and Duque spent some time in the minors, even though they had proven themselves repeatedly in international competition, before the Yanks trusted them. Matsui had been the best hitter in Japan, by far, for several years, so he wasn&#039;t a raw young player, and he had signed a fairly hefty contract.

================================
All these cases can be argued back and forth some with more merit to the proposition that &quot;the Yanks will trust unproven players&quot;.

But show me the equivalent case of a Dustin Pedroia, a player regarded as an excellent prospect who nevertheless gets off to a terrible start, and the team still stayed with him, and didn&#039;t bury him in the minor leagues. 

You have go back to when the Yanks were terrible, and George was still suspended, to find Bernie Williams. He&#039;s the closest. They havn&#039;t done anything like that in over 15 years. Hughes and Kennedy are just two more notches on that belt.

The Yanks remain the only team in MLB whose prospects must succeed immediately to stay with the team.

OK, all teams do this to some extent or other. But no one is as consistent about it as the Yanks have been the last 15 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Evan3457');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_79353','Evan3457');" /></div><span id="co_79353"><p>Raf, you&#8217;re usually about as good an analyst around here as anyone, but I have to disagree with you&#8230;</p>
<p>Wang and Cano were both desperation callups. They stuck because the obeyed the Golden Rule of Yankees Prospects: &#8220;Play well immediately, then get better, because if you have a slump in your 1st 3 months, you&#8217;re out of the lineup, and back in the minors, or traded.&#8221;</p>
<p>Cabrera&#8217;s 1st trial was also an emergency callup, and he cost them a game, and was buried for a full year. Hughes, after pitching decently from August through October in 2007, got exactly 6 major league starts, got hurt, and was promptly buried until late September.</p>
<p>Like Cano and Wang, Chamberlain&#8217;s callup was a desperation move to short up the pen, and he too obeyed the Golden Rule. Kennedy may have buried himself until 2010 with his performance last year.</p>
<p>Jeter was not a desperation call-up, but he too obeyed the Golden Rule, and was lucky enough to have a 1st year manager who was hired to replace a popular manager, and thus had extra rope to give a rookie, in case that rookie had struggled, which he didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Rivera was a starter; the team quickly saw he couldn&#8217;t start because he didn&#8217;t have a worthwhile 2nd pitch. They put him in the pen where he was used infrequently, and only a September streak moved him into a key role, but even then, Buck wouldn&#8217;t trust him with his fate on the line. Then they brought in Wetteland to be the closer, and gave Rivera a year of setup.</p>
<p>Contreras and Duque spent some time in the minors, even though they had proven themselves repeatedly in international competition, before the Yanks trusted them. Matsui had been the best hitter in Japan, by far, for several years, so he wasn&#8217;t a raw young player, and he had signed a fairly hefty contract.</p>
<p>================================<br />
All these cases can be argued back and forth some with more merit to the proposition that &#8220;the Yanks will trust unproven players&#8221;.</p>
<p>But show me the equivalent case of a Dustin Pedroia, a player regarded as an excellent prospect who nevertheless gets off to a terrible start, and the team still stayed with him, and didn&#8217;t bury him in the minor leagues. </p>
<p>You have go back to when the Yanks were terrible, and George was still suspended, to find Bernie Williams. He&#8217;s the closest. They havn&#8217;t done anything like that in over 15 years. Hughes and Kennedy are just two more notches on that belt.</p>
<p>The Yanks remain the only team in MLB whose prospects must succeed immediately to stay with the team.</p>
<p>OK, all teams do this to some extent or other. But no one is as consistent about it as the Yanks have been the last 15 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-79026</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-79026</guid>
		<description>Especially if you have an ownership that must win at all costs, and will not risk an unproven player, whether young, or coming off of bad year or an injury.
-------------------
Not necessarily true.  Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, Chamberlain, Jeter &amp; Rivera quickly come to mind.  Same goes for Contreras, Matsui &amp; Duque.

The Yanks have won and lost with unproven players, proven players, players young and old, players with injuries and healthy players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_79026','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_79026"><p>Especially if you have an ownership that must win at all costs, and will not risk an unproven player, whether young, or coming off of bad year or an injury.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Not necessarily true.  Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, Chamberlain, Jeter &amp; Rivera quickly come to mind.  Same goes for Contreras, Matsui &amp; Duque.</p>
<p>The Yanks have won and lost with unproven players, proven players, players young and old, players with injuries and healthy players.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan3457</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-79015</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan3457</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-79015</guid>
		<description>If a team can’t manage to have a winning team with a payroll of $160 million, then they don’t deserve to be in the league. There’s no need, whatsoever, to have a payroll in excess of $200 million if you have a GM who has a clue.
============================
Your opinion. Not fact. Especially if you have an ownership that must win at all costs, and will not risk an unproven player, whether young, or coming off of bad year or an injury.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Evan3457');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_79015','Evan3457');" /></div><span id="co_79015"><p>If a team can’t manage to have a winning team with a payroll of $160 million, then they don’t deserve to be in the league. There’s no need, whatsoever, to have a payroll in excess of $200 million if you have a GM who has a clue.<br />
============================<br />
Your opinion. Not fact. Especially if you have an ownership that must win at all costs, and will not risk an unproven player, whether young, or coming off of bad year or an injury.</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-78861</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-78861</guid>
		<description>Then, that would be stupid - because you never can count on a guy becoming a free agent, or signing with your team, for sure. You can’t just assume that someone will not lock a player up, etc.
-----------------
You can&#039;t assume that it won&#039;t happen either.  Besides, there&#039;s nothing wrong with targeting a player&#039; Yankees fans are doing it already with Matt Holliday.

I don&#039;t think Billy Beane is stupid for targeting and pursuing Erubiel Durazo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_78861','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_78861"><p>Then, that would be stupid &#8211; because you never can count on a guy becoming a free agent, or signing with your team, for sure. You can’t just assume that someone will not lock a player up, etc.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
You can&#8217;t assume that it won&#8217;t happen either.  Besides, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with targeting a player&#8217; Yankees fans are doing it already with Matt Holliday.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Billy Beane is stupid for targeting and pursuing Erubiel Durazo.</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-78637</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 06:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-78637</guid>
		<description>I’m just saying that Cashman lacks the baseball smarts to build a winning team in a manner outside of costing his team a half-billion dollars. What part of that is not true?
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The fact that the contracts haven&#039;t been paid out yet.  Or are the Yanks going to spend a half billion dollars on payroll next year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_78637','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_78637"><p>I’m just saying that Cashman lacks the baseball smarts to build a winning team in a manner outside of costing his team a half-billion dollars. What part of that is not true?<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
The fact that the contracts haven&#8217;t been paid out yet.  Or are the Yanks going to spend a half billion dollars on payroll next year?</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2008/12/27/cashman-2006-08-his-plan-cost-yanks-half-billion-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-78635</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 06:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=9618#comment-78635</guid>
		<description>Check the team payrolls from last year. The Yankees were, what, $70 million more than teams like the Sox, Tigers and Mets? The gap is huge. NO ONE spends like the Yankees.
--------------
Check the rest of my post.  Those teams spent money.

And again, the reason the Yankee payroll is so high is because of players like Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Rodriguez, etc.  Unless you are unhappy with those players being Yankees, then the payroll really isn&#039;t an issue.

The Yanks had an option @ 1b, that&#039;s the reason they traded for Swisher.  Teix was available, and was all but set to sign with the Red Sox.  I would rather have the organization sign Teix than have the Red Sox strengthened.

The problem I see when people bring up payroll &quot;OMG 200M!!!!11!!!1&quot; is that they don&#039;t seem to understand the reason why the payroll is at the level it is.

$70M&#039;s the difference?  Right there, that&#039;s Rodriguez, Giambi, Jeter, &amp; Abreu.  2 of the 4 are gone, and in the case of Abreu, his contract was given by the Phillies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_78635','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_78635"><p>Check the team payrolls from last year. The Yankees were, what, $70 million more than teams like the Sox, Tigers and Mets? The gap is huge. NO ONE spends like the Yankees.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Check the rest of my post.  Those teams spent money.</p>
<p>And again, the reason the Yankee payroll is so high is because of players like Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Rodriguez, etc.  Unless you are unhappy with those players being Yankees, then the payroll really isn&#8217;t an issue.</p>
<p>The Yanks had an option @ 1b, that&#8217;s the reason they traded for Swisher.  Teix was available, and was all but set to sign with the Red Sox.  I would rather have the organization sign Teix than have the Red Sox strengthened.</p>
<p>The problem I see when people bring up payroll &#8220;OMG 200M!!!!11!!!1&#8243; is that they don&#8217;t seem to understand the reason why the payroll is at the level it is.</p>
<p>$70M&#8217;s the difference?  Right there, that&#8217;s Rodriguez, Giambi, Jeter, &amp; Abreu.  2 of the 4 are gone, and in the case of Abreu, his contract was given by the Phillies.</p>
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