The whole point of mentioning Pedro and Santana was to show two talented starting pitchers who started their careers in the pen. They were established relievers before they were starters. David Cone was another pitcher who started off in the pen.

Yanks only signed 2 starters, they need 3 more to fill a rotation.

Worry about Mo if/when he shows that he is incapable of closing.

Raf,

Agreed Santana had better value as a starter.. but my point is he was an established starter and the Mets had no need for the reliever role as Wagner and others were look at as solid…. for the Yanks Joba has a much less established record as a starter and the need for the Yanks(after the signings) is they need to protect the bullpen cause Santana and the Mets were watching the playoffs just like us because nobody could close a game. i worry more about Mo cause he is 39 and Wang is younger….we won 89 games with a bunch of fill ins at pitcher last year. We can find some spot fill ins or sign somebody else but nobody is a dominating as Joba walking to mound. I am not saying he would not be a good starter but for the YANKS(because of singings) he has more value from the pen.

Agreed more innings means more contribution for a team…….but that is not a baseball insider view it is a common man view who doesn’t know anything about baseball.
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Sounds like a logical commonsense view to me.

Why are you concerned about Rivera, when Wang is coming off injury as well?

Santana & Pedro were mentioned in the context of a pitcher being wasted in the pen.

Besides, if it were such a big deal, why wasn’t Santana moved to the pen? Perhaps because he had more value as a starter?

Agreed more innings means more contribution for a team…….but that is not a baseball insider view it is a common man view who doesn’t know anything about baseball. That is like saying more money in your pocket is better than just a little. What you do as a baseball person is look at a team and ask yourself…..where do we need the most help and how can we win more games….1. we just spent tons of money on the starting rotation and we need to protect that investment. 2. We are not sure how Mo will respond and we need to make sure that closing a game is just as important as starting one. It is funny how everybody likes to comment on Santana but the reality is he was added to the Mets last yr and he pitched well….the problem was they missed the playoffs because the bullpen could not close games…..I don’t care what Joba can do for us in 2010, 2011 and so on….I want make sure we have an answer to the pen this yr because we have addressed the starting rotation and will lose the division if we have no back up in the pen or if the starters get worn out by the time September roles around……..Hey Raf….Santana, Pedro….Earl Weaver…please……….

Joba is just not ready to be a starter at the big league level. If he was then they would have never put him in a reliever role from the beginning.
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Johan Santana, Pedro Martinez and Earl Weaver, among others, would disagree with you.

All the more reason we should use him in the pen this year and not rely on luck. Next year we may lose Wang and will absolutly need him and this yr we still don’t know about MO……He could be great as a starter but Kerry Wood, Mark Prior were can’t miss starters who didn’t make it due to injuries…….I would rather fall on the side of caution, have the best pen in baseball with the knowledge I can always bring him in during the season.
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You can’t just put Joba in the pen and say “oh well, we can stretch him out anytime we want to.” If anything, I would expect his arm to get hurt most by continually switching between starter and reliever. Also, if we want Joba to develop best as a starting pitcher (which should be the ultimate goal if he can be a shutdown starter) it is important for him to get practice AS A STARTER. Pitching innings from the bullpen is different than pitching as a starter. He uses fewer pitches and doesn’t have to learn how to adjust to seeing the same batters 2 or 3 times. He needs to eventually become a starter and should practice as such.

mmbaseballfan: How can you justify putting Joba in the pen because “we still don’t know about mo” (who has pitched at least 63 innings every year since 2003) and because 2 absolutely random pitchers who have nothing to do with Joba, other than being young and throwing a baseball, got hurt. That makes no sense whatsoever.

“Joba-in-the-pen” crowd generally ignores most rational arguments for putting him in the rotation, but if nothing else people should be able to understand that PITCHING MORE INNINGS CONTRIBUTES MORE TO THE BASEBALL TEAM. It has been statistically proven by many people that pitching the 8th inning is no harder than pitching the 3rd, or 1st, or 7th, or even 9th. For some reason, people just think that pitching the 8th inning is really, really hard. It’s not hard. It’s just hard to find someone there because generally any *good* pitcher is made a starter.

You can’t move Joba into the rotation full-time from the bullpen, and increase his workload by 100+ innings in one season.

The Yanks have it right; 150 or so innings this season as the #5 starter, and then up to 200 innings in 2010.

Evan3457 writes:

The only question on Joba is can his arm stand up to 34 starts, 200-210 innings. He won’t get there this year, but with luck, he’ll get there by 2010

All the more reason we should use him in the pen this year and not rely on luck. Next year we may lose Wang and will absolutly need him and this yr we still don’t know about MO……He could be great as a starter but Kerry Wood, Mark Prior were can’t miss starters who didn’t make it due to injuries…….I would rather fall on the side of caution, have the best pen in baseball with the knowledge I can always bring him in during the season.

That’s rubbish.

He was already successfull as a major league starter last year.

The two reasons he was brought up as a reliever last year:

1) The Yanks were limiting his innings for the season. He only had about 25 innings left, and they would’ve shut him down after about 5 more starts in the minors, if they hadn’t moved him to the pen in the majors.

2) The Yanks had a big hole in 8th inning set-up relief.

A shutdown starter is the trump card of postseason play, and Joba has that potential. Much more valuable than an 8th inning set-up guy. The only question on Joba is can his arm stand up to 34 starts, 200-210 innings. He won’t get there this year, but with luck, he’ll get there by 2010.

Joba is just not ready to be a starter at the big league level. If he was then they would have never put him in a reliever role from the beginning. When he came up two years ago was the staff so good they could not find him a place to start…..hardly. They wanted him to build innings and move up to the starter role…well with injuries he has not had a chance to do that so he is still a reliever. The other part of this argument is Mo who is 39, coming off surgury and is a ? for the season…If Mo does not perform it would be nice not to waste the starts with losses from the pen.