Using the Complete Baseball Encyclopedia, I decided to look at all players with at least 500 RCAA and 10,000 PA in their career. Just for the fun of it, I asked it to show me Total Average (TA) as well. Then, I sorted the players by their career RCAA per 100 PA. Here’s that list:
PLAYER TA PA RCAA RCAA/100PA Babe Ruth 1.400 10616 1795 16.91 Barry Bonds 1.249 12606 1591 12.62 Ty Cobb 1.057 13073 1369 10.47 Stan Musial 1.028 12712 1204 9.47 Tris Speaker 1.012 11989 1053 8.78 Mel Ott 1.035 11337 989 8.72 Honus Wagner .945 11738 1011 8.61 Frank Thomas 1.056 10074 853 8.47 Willie Mays .982 12492 1008 8.07 Nap Lajoie .861 10460 785 7.50 Hank Aaron .940 13940 1032 7.40 Frank Robinson .961 11743 852 7.26 Cap Anson .867 10119 730 7.21 Eddie Mathews .916 10101 655 6.48 Eddie Collins .942 12039 747 6.20 Mike Schmidt .954 10062 623 6.19 Gary Sheffield .950 10635 649 6.10 Joe Morgan .910 11329 663 5.85 Rcky Henderson .945 13346 763 5.72 Sam Crawford .820 10596 595 5.62 Paul Waner .887 10762 588 5.46 K. Griffey Jr. .947 10742 584 5.44 Wade Boggs .852 10740 556 5.18 George Brett .834 11624 593 5.10 Tim Raines .886 10359 516 4.98 Reggie Jackson .847 11416 565 4.95 Tony Gwynn .806 10232 504 4.93 Raf.Palmeiro .891 12046 572 4.75 Al Kaline .840 11597 546 4.71 C. Yastrzemski .830 13991 547 3.91
Note the numbers for Tony Gwynn and Tim Raines. That’s pretty interesting.
Yes, Tony Gwynn had 3,141 career hits and that’s just about a free ticket to Cooperstown. But, in terms of production rate (like TA and RCAA/100 PA) and chances to produce those numbers (PA) Tim Raines is right there with Tony Gwynn. But, when it comes to voting for Cooperstown, I doubt that many of the members of the BBWAA would look at stats like these. That’s too bad.
15 Responses to “Tim Raines & Cooperstown”
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January 4th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Another thing this list proves is just how underrated Frank Thomas was with the bat. He’s right up there with the big boys.
January 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I’m wondering why Ted Williams isn’t on this list.
January 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Ted Williams had 9,789 career PA.
January 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
But, when it comes to voting for Cooperstown, I doubt that many of the members of the BBWAA would look at stats like these. That’s too bad.
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It’s amazing how so-called ‘professional’ journalists are so aggressively resistant to ‘new-age’ stats that often provide a much deeper picture of a players career. They prefer to trust their ‘eyes,’ which is often far too fallible.
Another thing this list proves is just how underrated Frank Thomas was with the bat. He’s right up there with the big boys.
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Frank never gets enough respect. He was always my older brother’s favorite player, so I’ve always a soft spot in my heart for him. If you look at the “Best of the 90s” stats, he is up there in almost everything. He never got enough respect in my mind… guess he needed a big postseason moment or a championship.
January 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
It’s amazing how so-called ‘professional’ journalists are so aggressively resistant to ‘new-age’ stats that often provide a much deeper picture of a players career. They prefer to trust their ‘eyes,’ which is often far too fallible.
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Given who they tend to cater to, it’s not surprising at all.
January 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
He never got enough respect in my mind… guess he needed a big postseason moment or a championship.
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He had good postseasons with the White Sox and the A’s.
I don’t know why he’s “forgotten”; at one time he had his own video game, his own shoe, among other things. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t have much of a personality
January 4th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
ISTM that those who vote on HoF haven’t yet figured out that On Base percentage means more than batting average. That’s unfair to players who walked a lot, like Frank Thomas, Tim Raines and Jorge Posada.
January 4th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
ISTM that those who vote on HoF haven’t yet figured out that On Base percentage means more than batting average. That’s unfair to players who walked a lot, like Frank Thomas, Tim Raines and Jorge Posada.
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you think posada is hall worthy? I don’t…hes a nice player but i don’t consider him equals to other great catchers of the past(or even close for that matter)
January 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
I’ve had a chance to meet Rock on a few occasions. No one that ever meet him would say he has no personality. Very friendly guy with a positive outlook on life. Still, I’m not sure I’d put him in the elite class that ought to be the HOF.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
As a hitter, Posada’s OPS+ of 124 is definitely right on par with the best catchers in the history of the game. Because of a late start, however, Posada is probably missing the necessary ABs, but that could be resolved with another 2-3 above average seasons. In any event, it is way off base to consider him only a “nice player” and “not even close” to being Hall worthy.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Actually, among catchers, Posada ranks
-11th in RCAA
-12th in HRs, 2B, and XBH
-6th in Walks
-7th in OWP (min. 5000 PA)
-3rd in OBA vs. league average
-9th in OPS vs. league
-14th in SLG vs. league
-5th in Total Average vs. league
It will be interesting to see how he hits for the next 3 years, but if he remains a productive player I think you can make a very strong case for the Hall of Fame. He might be hurt by a .277 average and his so-so defense, but he is actually one of the greatest hitting catchers in baseball history.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
There is no “elite class” who ought to be in the HoF. Raines was one of the most productive players in the game…the fact that he wasn’t in the elite company of Ruth, Williams, Gehrig, Cobb, Mays, Mantle, etc. is irrelevant, unless you believe the Hall should only permit those rare players.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
I’ve had a chance to meet Rock on a few occasions. No one that ever meet him would say he has no personality.
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FWIW, I was referring to Frank Thomas in my entry.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Oh, and Raines should be a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame. From 1981-1990, he was 3rd in RCAA, 5th in reaching base, and 2nd in steals. All-time, he is 58th in RCAA, 41st in reaching base, and 5th in steals. I think he’ll get in eventually, but it’s awful that he should wait at all – especially if a vastly inferior player such as Jim Rice gets in this year.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
The bottom line is that the BBWAA should no longer be the sole arbiter of Hall status. Writers were the logical choice in the days before mass media because they were the only ones traveling around the country watching hundreds of games. With the proliferation of access to games, that is no longer the case. As a result, the honor of a Hall vote should be based on merit, not simply longevity in a labor union. Furthermore, the pool of voters should be more diverse than one profession. Why MLB and the Hall can’t see this is bewildering to me.