Former Yank: ’09 Bombers Will Have Great Stats Yet Lack Grinders
Posted by Steve L. on January 5th, 2009 · Comments (21)
Via Tim Kurkjian:
“I still don’t have a good feel about their club,” one former Yankees player said. “They’ll have a great statistical club, but I still think they’re so away from what made them great. They don’t have enough down-and-dirty guys like (Scott) Brosius, Tino (Martinez) and (Paul) O’Neill.”
Hmm..any guesses on who this former Yankee may be?
In any event, do you agree or disagree with what’s being suggested here?
Me? I think I’m feeling it – at least to an extent.
How is Teixeira not a grinder? The guy plays hard every single day, is never hurt and puts up big stats. How do we know that Swisher won’t be O’Neill like?
Grinder is code word for “average player”
Hmm..any guesses on who this former Yankee may be?
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Given the way the comment is phrased, it seems to be a “post-dynasty” fly by night player.
Anyway,
Tino
Career: .271-.344-.471
Playoff:.233-.321-.351
Scotty
Career: .257-.323-.422
Playoff:.245-.278-.418
Paulie
Career: .288-.363-.470
Playoff:.284-.363-.465
Seems to me they preformed at or below their career level… And looking at their postseason by series, they had good series, they had bad ones. Nothing in particular really stands out, certainly not in the context of the regular season.
Just like there’s batting average and then there’s slugging percentage – where one tells us the frequency of the hits and the other tells us the quality of the hits – I believe that there’s a difference between how many hits a guy got in the post-season and the timing and/or impact of the hits that he got…no?
~~ The guy plays hard every single day, is never hurt and puts up big stats. ~~
FWIW, the same can be said about A-Rod. But, if it’s Game 7 of the WS, Yanks down by one, with a runner on 2nd and two outs, I don’t want A-Rod at the plate for me in that spot.
He’s right, we need more down-and-dirty players to be great again. Let’s ship A-Rod, Tex and Cano out and pick up some more Miguel Cairos.
Lets be serious. Yeah, those dynasty teams were great but they were great because our pitching was some of the best in baseball. Guys like Tino and Scotty could hit .230-.240 in the playoffs and still win World Series because our pitching shut the other teams down. I’m ok with less “grit” as long as we have top starters to throw out there.
I believe that there’s a difference between how many hits a guy got in the post-season and the timing and/or impact of the hits that he got…no?
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David Ortiz, game 4.
Bottom of the 9th, winning run on second, he pops out. Bottom of the 11th, he hits a HR to win the game. Two situations, two different results.
David Ortiz, game 5.
Bottom of 10th, he leads off with a K, 12th inning he walks, 14th inning, he hits a single to win the game. Three situations, three different results.
Give a player enough ab’s, don’t be surprised to see something good happen. While Tino hitting a HR in the bottom of the 9th (01 Series) was a great moment, it would’ve been nice if he came through in previous AB’s in the 2nd, 4th and 7th innings. Ditto for Brosius; what happened during his AB’s in the 2nd, 5th & 7th? Were they not “clutch” enough opportunities? Am I supposed to believe that he and Tino elevated their games, saved their hits for the bottom of the 9th?
~~Am I supposed to believe that he and Tino elevated their games, saved their hits for the bottom of the 9th?~~
Nope. But, because he did HR in that spot, you should believe that he has/had the ability not to press in the ultimate pressure situation and the ability to allow himself to slow everything down and give the situation a chance of coming out positive. And, can we say the same about A-Rod?
Me? I think A-Rod presses too much in the post-season since 2004 and that’s why his production is terrible. It’s just a feeling…but, I would bet that I’m not the only one who feels this way.
Will Tex and Swisher be the same? Dunno. No one knows, either way, until they have a chance to show us…and I think that’s the point here – that this current group of Yankees are untested…or, at the least, unproven, in terms of delivering the big play in the big game.
Maybe it’s all post-2004 ALCS stuff? Maybe that has stained the team to where they all, or most of them, press too much now in the post-season? Again, I don’t know for sure…but I would not shoot down the person who suggests it either…
Nope. But, because he did HR in that spot, you should believe that he has/had the ability not to But, because he did HR in that spot, you should believe that he has/had the ability not to press in the ultimate pressure situation and the ability to allow himself to slow everything down and give the situation a chance of coming out positive.
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And because they have failed in other spots, spots where they’ve had as just as much pressure, that tells me otherwise. It happens during the regular season, it happens during the postseason.
Just like I pointed out with David Ortiz in game 4. He had two opportunities, cashed in on one. Did he forget how to be a “clutch” hitter in the 9th?
Ted Williams
Career: .344-.482-.634
Playoff:.200-.333-.200
After the 1946 season, a season where Williams posted the following line, .342-.497-.667 he posted the following line in the playoffs; .200-.333-.200. Am I to believe that Ted Williams, a man who just came off a hitch with the Marines in WW2 was somehow unable to handle the pressure of a World Series game?
Maybe it’s all post-2004 ALCS stuff? Maybe that has stained the team to where they all, or most of them, press too much now in the post-season?
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Good question, but having had guys that “have done it before” (Kevin Brown, Mo, Jeter, Sheffield, Posada, among others) fail, I would think that pressing wouldn’t be that much of an issue.
~~~Am I to believe that Ted Williams, a man who just came off a hitch with the Marines in WW2 was somehow unable to handle the pressure of a World Series game?~~~
Last time I checked, in war, it wasn’t one-on-one like it is between the pitcher and the hitter…is it?
Last time I checked, in war, it wasn’t one-on-one like it is between the pitcher and the hitter…is it?
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Not even close. In comparison, one on one between a pitcher and a hitter is so far down on the ledger that it barely registers
But, in the 1-on-1 batter/pitcher match-up, as the batter, the pressure is 100% on you, and you alone, to come through – whereas with the war, the pressure to win the battle does not sit on one man’s shoulder’s alone. Yes, one is life and death and the other is a game. But, in terms of having to execute your “moves” (for lack of a better term), in the battle, you can totally screw up and be protected by the rest of your unit. In baseball, if you screw the PA, no one on the team can help you at that moment.
In baseball, if you screw the PA, no one on the team can help you at that moment.
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1962 World Series game 7. Bottom of the 9th, tying run on third, winning run on second, Willie McCovey hits a line drive ticketed to right field. Problem is, Bobby Richardson is in the way.
McCovey, who was coming off a season where he hit .293-.368-.590 did what he was supposed to do; hit the ball & hit it hard. He did that and had nothing to show for it.
2008 World Series, game 6. Fernando Perez running for Dioner Navarro who singled. Perez steals second, while Ben Zobrist is hitting. Zobrist hits a liner directly @ Jayson Werth playing RF. Zobrist, coming off a season where he hit .253-.339-.505 did what he was supposed to do; hit the ball & hit it hard. He did that and had nothing to show for it.
We can come up with a bunch of scenarios where a player hit the ball hard, and had nothing to show for it, or a player hit a ball softly and reached base because of a fielding error (Mookie Wilson), or because of a well placed hit (Luis Gonzalez). Doesn’t mean they pooched the PA.
You had to bring up Luis Gonzalez, didn’t you?
OK, now I have to go throw up.
Uhhh…Ted Williams was a Marine Corps fighter pilot, not an infantryman.
He eventually flew 38 combat missions in the Korean War. The last half of them was as wingman for a pilot a little more famous for “flying”: John Glenn. That’s how good a pilot Ted Williams was; he got to be wingman for John Glenn.
Now a wingman is not exactly alone, but if he has to break off an go after an enemy plane, that’s as “one-on-one” as it gets, and with somewhat more pressure, and considerably more to lose, than batter vs. pitcher, even in the World Series.
Steve, you may have lost me forever with your comments on flying for your life in war conditions versus batting in the World Series. Unbelievable. You must be playing devil’s advocate or something.
And give me a break. Tino, Brosius, and O’Neill were a lot of fun to watch and good players, but they did not possess any mythical clutch abilities. Far from it. Frankly, Tino struck out the pitch before his famous World Series grand slam but the ump blew it. Was that clutch?
Different teams. Different eras. There is no one formula for winning. The ’09 team sure looks like it will get to the playoffs. Then it’s pitching, pitching, pitching mixed in with a bit of a crapshoot.
~~You must be playing devil’s advocate or something.~~
Just a tad.
You had to bring up Luis Gonzalez, didn’t you?
OK, now I have to go throw up.
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My bad, I meant to say Luis Sojo
Look, I love Tim Kurkjian, but this article is total ESPN horsesh*t, likely required to be written by his editor.
I mean, how do you write this stuff?? The lockers are too big? Seriously??!! That’s our new sabr stat? Locker size?? How does that correlate to OPS+?
Just curious.
Steve, would you then consider Mo clutch? I mean, he is the best regular season and post-season closer, but also is responsible for the Yankees not winning two World Series. I guess he became less clutch after 2000, right? He forgot how to be clutch?