I’m working on a little project and was interested in some input from the readers of this blog.
I’m constructing a list of “major” starting pitching acquisitions by the Yankees since 1996 – albeit via trade or free agency. Obviously, I have some research tools at my availability that will enable me to work up a list of acquisitions and then select those players who were starting pitchers. And, I certainly have my own opinions on which ones of those were major in terms of the size of the trade made, or the contract awarded, and the expectations placed upon the incoming pitcher. Nonetheless, while I believe that the trade made for Roger Clemens or the free agent signing of Mike Mussina were “major” moves, I’m also curious as to what other Yankees fans think on this matter.
If you have any thoughts, opinions, etc., on this topic, please share them in the comments section below. And, of course, thanks in advance.
21 Responses to “Major Yankees SP Imports”
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January 7th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
I think the “major” factor should definitely include what we were expecting of the guy, even if he didnt deliver. see: Johnson, Randy
January 7th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Agreed – that’s why I would include Pavano too.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I guess you have to define “major” and take it from there.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Maybe, if you wanted to and had the time and resources to do so, you can compare some of the “major” Yankee starting additions to some of the “minor” ones in the same years. Like comparing Randy Johnson and Carl Pavano’s contribution to team success in 2005 compared to Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon’s contribution. Idk, just a thought.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
~~I guess you have to define “major” and take it from there.~~
Use what you think were “major.”
January 7th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
~~~ if you wanted to and had the time and resources to do so, you can compare some of the “major” Yankee starting additions to some of the “minor” ones in the same years.~~~
That’s not the project that I’m working on. But, if you wanted to list some of them here, in the comments, for discussion, feel free.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
el duque was my favorite major sp aquisition…
January 7th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
The problem that I have with including El Duque in such a list is that he did not come from another major league team when he was signed as a Free Agent. So, what could we use as a basis to form an expectation – his Cuba stats? That’s not good enough for me.
For example, we know what Javy Vazquez did the season before the Yankees traded for him. Ditto Carl Pavano the season before he was signed. So, it would have been somewhat reasonable to expect them to do the same, or close to it, when they joined New York.
I don’t think it would be fair (for lack of a better word) to look at El Duque’s Cuba stats, when he last pitched there, and assume that he would produce “X” for the Yankees.
January 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
I guess that rules out Contreras too. He would have had to be considered a major import otherwise.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Yeah, and Irabu and Igawa too – at least IMHO – they would not count.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
So, it would have been somewhat reasonable to expect them (Vazquez & Pavano) to do the same, or close to it, when they joined New York.
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I don’t know about that. In the case of Pavano, I was pretty sure he wouldn’t be able to replicate his 2004 season. I didn’t foresee that he would be as hurt as often as he was.
BTW, what stats are you using? Stats that can be controlled by the pitcher, or “traditional” pitching stats?
January 7th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
The problem that I have with including El Duque in such a list is that he did not come from another major league team when he was signed as a Free Agent.
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First time yes, second time no.
January 7th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
~~BTW, what stats are you using? Stats that can be controlled by the pitcher, or “traditional” pitching stats?~~
Forget what I’m doing. That’s not the point. This is what do YOU think…who do YOU think was a major pick-up…based on YOUR definition of “major” and using the stats that YOU would think are important…if YOU want to even use stats at all…
January 7th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
This is what do YOU think…who do YOU think was a major pick-up…based on YOUR definition of “major” and using the stats that YOU would think are important…if YOU want to even use stats at all…
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That’s the thing, if you’re discussing major pickups, then you have to include guys like Duque, Contreras & Irabu. Igawa was expected to be a back of the rotation starter, I don’t think he can be considered a major acquisition. Guys like Mussina, Clemens & Johnson, were expected to provide “ace” caliber pitching. Vazquez & Weaver were young guns on the verge of breaking out. So on and so forth.
January 7th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
i think the only “major” pickup that matters enough to be analyzed in the last 12 years is brian cashman, as he is the best thing that has happened to the organization since rivera and jeter were acquired.
January 7th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Did people expect David Wells to pitch a perfect game for the Yankees when he was acquired?
January 7th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Did people expect David Wells to pitch a perfect game for the Yankees when he was acquired?
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I doubt it, but when signed away from the O’s it wouldn’t have been unreasonable to have expected around 200 above average innings.
January 7th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
I would throw Kevin Brown in there. High expectations.
David Cone, too.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Clemens for Wells , my Aussie paisan Lloyd and Bush was major? I think that a lot of Yankee fans had their hearts fall out when Boomer was traded. Would the Yankees have won those 99,00 World series without Clemens and with Wells ? Probably. To me Boomer was a true blue Yankee, Clemens not so much even though Boomer played for a gazillion teams, he had such an effusive love for the franchise and its history. He even wanted to wear Babe Ruth’s cap during a game for Chrissakes! Yeah, he let us down in the 2003 World Series, but how did Roger’s 28 million dollar return in 2006 work out? Roger probably turned Andy into a better pitcher BUT albeit a more medicated pitcher.
El Duque is probably the most unsung of all Yankee pitchers for his first tour of duty and his return in 2004. El Duque’s return in 2004 really helped the Yankees get back to the post season with the flops like Vazquez and Brown all around him. That is arguably one of the best signings the Yanks have made of late.
Moose is another one that flies under the radar. WAs he the greatest Yankee pitcher of all time? Hell,no but the Yanks got their money’s worth from him. Compared to Pavano, Wright, Igawa and Weaver he was a relative bargain. As quirky and cerebral that Moose is , he came through on the field. Was he the greatest post season pitcher? We all remember that game back in 2006 against Detroit and that sticks in many a fan’s craw. He also gets special points for calling Pavano on the carpet when the american idle pushed it beyond belief.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Anyone remember Denny Nagle? It seemed somewhat “major” at the time as I recall.
January 8th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Nagle turned out not to be so great that Torre shied away from him in the post season. Nagle will be forever remembered for his encounter with an unattractive whore and his big contract with Colorado rather than that trade.