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	<title>Comments on: Andy Pettitte Signs With Yanks</title>
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		<title>By: Andy Pettitte: Done, Or, A Hero?</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-208214</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Pettitte: Done, Or, A Hero?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-208214</guid>
		<description>[...] some may say that this is just Andy trying to make some money this season because he gets paid more for playing than sitting. But, I don&#8217;t see it that way. More so, Pettitte knows that Worm Killer Wang is in rough [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] some may say that this is just Andy trying to make some money this season because he gets paid more for playing than sitting. But, I don&#8217;t see it that way. More so, Pettitte knows that Worm Killer Wang is in rough [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100984</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100984</guid>
		<description>The point is that the worst case scenario can happen, it doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that they&#039;re making excuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100984','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_100984"><p>The point is that the worst case scenario can happen, it doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that they&#8217;re making excuses.</p>
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		<title>By: butchie22</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100972</link>
		<dc:creator>butchie22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100972</guid>
		<description>A rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Burnett and Chamberlain. Now, that’s pretty darn impressive. No excuses this year, huh?
————–
And if all 5 miss time with injury? Quote by Raf

Raf, I see your point BUT all five being injured might be a possibilty but surely not a probability. BUT I see that fraud, Burnit, on the DL at least once OR twice that&#039;s for sure. CC pitched a ton last year , will it catch up to him this year? Will Wang make a full season without being on the DL? Who knows if Joba can stay away from the DL this year as well. All interesting questions and the rotation looks good on paper. My opinion is that at the very least two of these pitchers will be out at certain times during the season, so this might not be the rotation we see at the end of next season. Oh no........here comes Sir Sidney again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('butchie22');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100972','butchie22');" /></div><span id="co_100972"><p>A rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Burnett and Chamberlain. Now, that’s pretty darn impressive. No excuses this year, huh?<br />
————–<br />
And if all 5 miss time with injury? Quote by Raf</p>
<p>Raf, I see your point BUT all five being injured might be a possibilty but surely not a probability. BUT I see that fraud, Burnit, on the DL at least once OR twice that&#8217;s for sure. CC pitched a ton last year , will it catch up to him this year? Will Wang make a full season without being on the DL? Who knows if Joba can stay away from the DL this year as well. All interesting questions and the rotation looks good on paper. My opinion is that at the very least two of these pitchers will be out at certain times during the season, so this might not be the rotation we see at the end of next season. Oh no&#8230;&#8230;..here comes Sir Sidney again!</p>
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		<title>By: Evan3457</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100900</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan3457</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100900</guid>
		<description>Just watch, the MLBPA will file something on this
==========
I hope they do. I&#039;d love to be the lawyer arguing the owners side who gets to say something like...&quot;HEHHHH-LOWWWW, recession, remember? In a recession businesses cut back spending, especially on non-essential items.&quot;

=================================
…when you have guys with numbers like Abreu and Garland not getting squat in terms of offers. Well, something is up.

Garland is a career mediocrity, propped up by his defenses. I wouldn&#039;t offer him more than $5 million a year, myself. 

Abreu USED TO BE a star. His numbers last season were illusory in my opinion. He did very little while the Yanks floundered through the 1st half, and his 2nd half salary drive did not impress me much, especially in view of his age, his overall decline in the last 3-4 years, and his defense-hackery.

I wouldn&#039;t offer Abreu any more than Burrell got, because although he is &quot;better&quot;, slightly, he&#039;s also 3 years older, and is likely to decline significantly over the next several years.

If showing sound judgement about the long-term value of players is &quot;collusion&quot;, then MLB should just declare bankruptcy and fold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Evan3457');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100900','Evan3457');" /></div><span id="co_100900"><p>Just watch, the MLBPA will file something on this<br />
==========<br />
I hope they do. I&#8217;d love to be the lawyer arguing the owners side who gets to say something like&#8230;&#8221;HEHHHH-LOWWWW, recession, remember? In a recession businesses cut back spending, especially on non-essential items.&#8221;</p>
<p>=================================<br />
…when you have guys with numbers like Abreu and Garland not getting squat in terms of offers. Well, something is up.</p>
<p>Garland is a career mediocrity, propped up by his defenses. I wouldn&#8217;t offer him more than $5 million a year, myself. </p>
<p>Abreu USED TO BE a star. His numbers last season were illusory in my opinion. He did very little while the Yanks floundered through the 1st half, and his 2nd half salary drive did not impress me much, especially in view of his age, his overall decline in the last 3-4 years, and his defense-hackery.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t offer Abreu any more than Burrell got, because although he is &#8220;better&#8221;, slightly, he&#8217;s also 3 years older, and is likely to decline significantly over the next several years.</p>
<p>If showing sound judgement about the long-term value of players is &#8220;collusion&#8221;, then MLB should just declare bankruptcy and fold.</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100869</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100869</guid>
		<description>A rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Burnett and Chamberlain. Now, that’s pretty darn impressive. No excuses this year, huh?
--------------
And if all 5 miss time with injury?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100869','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_100869"><p>A rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Burnett and Chamberlain. Now, that’s pretty darn impressive. No excuses this year, huh?<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
And if all 5 miss time with injury?</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100814</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100814</guid>
		<description>Angels Get Worse (An entry on the Angels acquiring Garland from the White Sox)

http://ussmariner.com/2007/11/19/angels-get-worse/#comments

&quot;Despite his reputation, Garland is just a generic #4 starter. I’m not sure there’s a team in the AL that needed Jon Garland less than the Angels, who already have a quality rotation and some good young arms in the upper levels of their farm system.&quot;

&quot;This is a nice move by Kenny Williams, giving his team a legitimate major league shortstop and selling high on Garland, who should be easily replaced by any one of the number of decent backend starters the White Sox didn’t have room for before this deal.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100814','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_100814"><p>Angels Get Worse (An entry on the Angels acquiring Garland from the White Sox)</p>
<p><a href="http://ussmariner.com/2007/11/19/angels-get-worse/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://ussmariner.com/2007/11/19/angels-get-worse/#comments</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Despite his reputation, Garland is just a generic #4 starter. I’m not sure there’s a team in the AL that needed Jon Garland less than the Angels, who already have a quality rotation and some good young arms in the upper levels of their farm system.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;This is a nice move by Kenny Williams, giving his team a legitimate major league shortstop and selling high on Garland, who should be easily replaced by any one of the number of decent backend starters the White Sox didn’t have room for before this deal.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100812</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100812</guid>
		<description>And more importantly, you can&#039;t talk collusion when teams are spending actually money.  Just because teams aren&#039;t going to sign Abreu, Dunn, Varitek, etc to stupid contracts, doesn&#039;t mean that the league is colluding against them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100812','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_100812"><p>And more importantly, you can&#8217;t talk collusion when teams are spending actually money.  Just because teams aren&#8217;t going to sign Abreu, Dunn, Varitek, etc to stupid contracts, doesn&#8217;t mean that the league is colluding against them.</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100811</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100811</guid>
		<description>In that, if the teams have found wisdom, they sure found it quickly.
------------
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-do-the-ofs-land

&quot;You know who can’t be happy about those deals (note: Milton Bradley &amp; Pat Burrell), though? Bobby Abreu, and to a lesser extent, Adam Dunn. The ceiling has been firmly established for offense first corner outfielders (non-Manny Ramirez category), and it’s much lower than it has been in past seasons. There’s not going to be a Carlos Lee type deal out there for Dunn, and Abreu won’t be able to pull in J.D. Drew type money. They’re going to have to take dramatic pay cuts in order to find a team willing to employ them.

The teams that were expected to be in the market for power bats were Tampa Bay, Oakland, Seattle, Anaheim, the Yankees, the Cubs, Atlanta, and maybe Washington. The Rays got Burrell, the A’s got Matt Holiday and Jason Giambi, the Mariners signed Russell Branyan, the Yankees signed Mark Teixeira, and the Cubs signed Bradley. That leaves the Angels, Nationals, and maybe the Mariners as teams who could potentially still be interested in a left-handed power hitter with questionable defense. &quot;

As for Manny, I suspect teams are afraid of &quot;Manny being Manny.&quot;  Not only that, realistically, what team can afford what he&#039;s asking?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/abreu-overload

&quot;UZR takes park factors into account, so sure, even if you grant that it’s easer to field left in SafeCo than right in Yankee Stadium, we should still be able to compare these two with park biased stripped from the equation. Over the last three years Dewan has Abreu at -14 (32nd), -14 (32nd), and -24 (34th) while Ibanez was at +2 (16th), -25 (33rd), -18 (33rd). UZR puts Abreu worth -15.3, -4.2, and -25.2, and Ibanez worth -5.6, -20.8, and -12.6. Average that out, and factor in the arms ratings and Abreu is worth about eight runs less than Ibanez.

Offensively Abreu has been 19 (park adjusted) runs better over the last three years, which means about 11 runs better overall, or one win. So yeah, Abreu is the better player, but the Ibanez move was ridiculous on its own, that does not mean some team should sign Abreu and throw him in the outfield. If we use the poor moves to judge all players then we should go ahead and campaign Juan Uribe in for a multiple year deal, after all, Willie Bloomquist and Aaron Miles got one apiece.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Raf');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100811','Raf');" /></div><span id="co_100811"><p>In that, if the teams have found wisdom, they sure found it quickly.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
<a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-do-the-ofs-land" rel="nofollow">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-do-the-ofs-land</a></p>
<p>&#8220;You know who can’t be happy about those deals (note: Milton Bradley &amp; Pat Burrell), though? Bobby Abreu, and to a lesser extent, Adam Dunn. The ceiling has been firmly established for offense first corner outfielders (non-Manny Ramirez category), and it’s much lower than it has been in past seasons. There’s not going to be a Carlos Lee type deal out there for Dunn, and Abreu won’t be able to pull in J.D. Drew type money. They’re going to have to take dramatic pay cuts in order to find a team willing to employ them.</p>
<p>The teams that were expected to be in the market for power bats were Tampa Bay, Oakland, Seattle, Anaheim, the Yankees, the Cubs, Atlanta, and maybe Washington. The Rays got Burrell, the A’s got Matt Holiday and Jason Giambi, the Mariners signed Russell Branyan, the Yankees signed Mark Teixeira, and the Cubs signed Bradley. That leaves the Angels, Nationals, and maybe the Mariners as teams who could potentially still be interested in a left-handed power hitter with questionable defense. &#8221;</p>
<p>As for Manny, I suspect teams are afraid of &#8220;Manny being Manny.&#8221;  Not only that, realistically, what team can afford what he&#8217;s asking?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/abreu-overload" rel="nofollow">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/abreu-overload</a></p>
<p>&#8220;UZR takes park factors into account, so sure, even if you grant that it’s easer to field left in SafeCo than right in Yankee Stadium, we should still be able to compare these two with park biased stripped from the equation. Over the last three years Dewan has Abreu at -14 (32nd), -14 (32nd), and -24 (34th) while Ibanez was at +2 (16th), -25 (33rd), -18 (33rd). UZR puts Abreu worth -15.3, -4.2, and -25.2, and Ibanez worth -5.6, -20.8, and -12.6. Average that out, and factor in the arms ratings and Abreu is worth about eight runs less than Ibanez.</p>
<p>Offensively Abreu has been 19 (park adjusted) runs better over the last three years, which means about 11 runs better overall, or one win. So yeah, Abreu is the better player, but the Ibanez move was ridiculous on its own, that does not mean some team should sign Abreu and throw him in the outfield. If we use the poor moves to judge all players then we should go ahead and campaign Juan Uribe in for a multiple year deal, after all, Willie Bloomquist and Aaron Miles got one apiece.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100799</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100799</guid>
		<description>That has less to do with collusion than GM’s wising up.
==========================
I don&#039;t know if I buy the collusion thing (though I certainly wouldn&#039;t be shocked if that were the case), this wising up you speak of seems even more unlikely to me. In that, if the teams have found wisdom, they sure found it quickly. Seems to me there were plenty of stupid signings last year. 

Though, I admit I could be misremembering. All those offseasons are blending together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Justin');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100799','Justin');" /></div><span id="co_100799"><p>That has less to do with collusion than GM’s wising up.<br />
==========================<br />
I don&#8217;t know if I buy the collusion thing (though I certainly wouldn&#8217;t be shocked if that were the case), this wising up you speak of seems even more unlikely to me. In that, if the teams have found wisdom, they sure found it quickly. Seems to me there were plenty of stupid signings last year. </p>
<p>Though, I admit I could be misremembering. All those offseasons are blending together.</p>
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		<title>By: TurnTwo</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/01/26/andy-pettitte-signs-with-yanks/comment-page-1/#comment-100798</link>
		<dc:creator>TurnTwo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=10150#comment-100798</guid>
		<description>&quot;when you have guys with numbers like Abreu and Garland not getting squat in terms of offers. Well, something is up.&quot;

something is up, alright.

how about Jon Garland isnt anywhere near as good as what his agent is asking for, and that noone wants to give Abreu a year year contract when he&#039;s already in his mid-30&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('TurnTwo');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_100798','TurnTwo');" /></div><span id="co_100798"><p>&#8220;when you have guys with numbers like Abreu and Garland not getting squat in terms of offers. Well, something is up.&#8221;</p>
<p>something is up, alright.</p>
<p>how about Jon Garland isnt anywhere near as good as what his agent is asking for, and that noone wants to give Abreu a year year contract when he&#8217;s already in his mid-30&#8242;s?</p>
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