Cashman: Our Scouts (And Therefore I) Are Not To Blame
Via Tyler Kepner last Saturday (with a hat tip to Rob Neyer) –
In the Yankees’ recent glory years, their rotation seemed to offer something close to an ace every game. Many came from elsewhere, like Jimmy Key (acquired in 1993), David Cone (1995), David Wells (1997), Orlando Hernández (1998), Roger Clemens (1999) and Mike Mussina (2001).
The track record since has been abysmal. Starting in 2002, the Yankees have traded for or signed Weaver, José Contreras, Kevin Brown, Javier Vázquez, Esteban Loaiza, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Randy Johnson and Kei Igawa. Only Johnson won more than 16 games for the Yankees, and he is best known for crumbling in the playoffs.
“Some of it is that guys couldn’t handle New York,” Cashman said. “In some cases, you see that other organizations put them in a position to succeed maybe more than we did, in terms of figuring out their mechanics and their mind-set.
“Obviously, José Contreras wasn’t successful here, but he went to the White Sox and he became a world champion. Was it because they unlocked certain things in him? Because the talent was there; our scouts weren’t wrong.
“And our scouts weren’t wrong on Weaver, who led a National League team, the St. Louis Cardinals, to a world championship. They weren’t wrong about the assessment of these guys, so what happened here?”
All of the failures had impressive pedigrees. Igawa was a strikeout king in Japan. Contreras won a gold medal for the Cuban national team. Johnson, Pavano and Brown were former All-Stars who had anchored rotations for World Series winners.
But behind each acquisition were warning signs the Yankees ignored. Wright was coming off a 15-win season in the N.L. but was long removed from his American League success. Vázquez had never pitched in the A.L., as Sabathia and Burnett have done successfully.
Johnson was 41 when he came to the Yankees, and Brown was 39. Each had just finished an unexpected standout season that turned out to be a mirage. Sabathia, 28, and Burnett, 32, probably have not begun their decline.
…and our scouts weren’t wrong on Weaver, who led a National League team, the St. Louis Cardinals, to a world championship…
Did Cashman really say that? Really? Does he even know what Weaver’s stats were when he was in St. Louis?
The Yankees G.M. is thin-skinned and cluless if he believes that…
Yeah really, giving Weaver and Contreras credit for winning the world series, although both pitched well in the playoffs, is like Irabu credit for the World Series in 1998.
i think he was referring to Weaver’s performance in the 2006 playoffs, where you can’t knock him as he pitched pretty well on the whole (one shaky outing but he still gave the cards a chance to win)
i think he was referring to Weaver’s performance in the 2006 playoffs, where you can’t knock him as he pitched pretty well on the whole
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Regardless, that doesn’t negate the poor pitching he had done all season.
Anyway, with both Contreras & Weaver, you had two pitchers who had one good year, one bad in NY. I’d still make both acquisitions.
**Johnson was 41 when he came to the Yankees, and Brown was 39. Each had just finished an unexpected standout season that turned out to be a mirage**
While Johnson & Brown had outstanding seasons before being traded to NY, I don’t think it was outside the realm of possibility that they did as well as they did.
You want to see something crazy? Kevin Brown posted a 6.50 ERA in 2005. However, looking at fielding independent pitching, he posted a 3.61. Quite a large discrepancy.
However, looking at fielding independent pitching, he posted a 3.61. Quite a large discrepancy.
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can ya give some info on the stat? what factors are taken into account?
can ya give some info on the stat? what factors are taken into account?
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From a previous WW entry
“Fielding Independent Pitching (or FIP). This is a measure of all those things for which a pitcher is specifically responsible. The formula is (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)*3-K*2)/IP, plus a league-specific factor (usually around 3.2) to round out the number to an equivalent ERA number. FIP helps you understand how well a pitcher pitched, regardless of how well his fielders fielded. FIP was invented by Tangotiger.”
Cashman makes it sound like Weaver carried the Cards in 2006 the way that Orel Hershiser carred the Dodgers in 1988.
Pull-ease.
Facts are facts.
Both Contreras and Weaver were key starting pitchers on teams that won championships AFTER they left the Yanks.
And Contreras was the staff leader of the White Sox during the postseason of 2005.
In addition, it’s quite unfair to blame Cashman or the scours or both for BOTH Weaver and Brown, and for BOTH Contreras and Loaiza, and BOTH Vazquez and Johnson, because, in each case, a pitcher whose value had been greatly reduced, whether through injury or inability to handle pitching for the Yankees or both, was force-moved to get them out of New York.
What did anyone think you could get for Weaver, Contreras and Vazquez at the moment the Yankees decided to dump them; Reynolds, Raschi and Lopat?
Kevin Brown wasn’t as bad as people thought he was in 2004. He was doing ok up until he punched the wall.
Loaiza, OTOH, was middling. Having said that, I’d rather the Yanks kept him than signed Jaret Wright.