• Wild Thought: What If Cashman Goes 3 For 3 On the 40% Plan?

    Posted by on February 23rd, 2009 · Comments (30)

    In 2007, Brian Cashman’s plan for the Yankees starting rotation, at the start of the season, was to give 40% of the team’s starts to Carl Pavano and Kei Igawa. Because of ineffectiveness and injury, that “40% Plan” failed.

    In 2008, Brian Cashman’s plan for the Yankees starting rotation, at the start of the season, was to give 40% of the team’s starts to Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. Because of ineffectiveness and injury, that “40% Plan” failed.

    Now, in 2009, Brian Cashman’s plan for the Yankees starting rotation, at the start of this season, is to give 40% of the team’s starts to A.J. Burnett and Joba Chamberlain.

    It’s just today’s wild thought; but, what if this Cashman “40% Plan” fails for the third season in a row? It’s possible – Burnett has a checkered past and Chamberlain has yet to prove that he can be counted on to make 25+ starts at the big league level.

    Would a failed “40% Plan” hat-trick mean three strikes and you’re out for Brian Cashman? Should it?

    Comments on Wild Thought: What If Cashman Goes 3 For 3 On the 40% Plan?

    1. YankCrank
      February 23rd, 2009 | 12:13 pm

      Its safe to say the plans in 2007 and 2008 didn’t work out for two reasons. First, the pitchers were either hurt and/or ineffective, and second, there were no options behind them worth noting. In 2007 we had to go spend a ton of money on Clemens, and last year relying on Ponson wasn’t a great option.

      However, this year if AJ falls apart, or Joba gets hurt, we’re in much better shape to absorb a rotation hit with our arms in AAA. If Joba needs to skip a start, or AJ misses a start (which will most likely happen at some point so don’t be surprised or act like he’s a bust if he does) i’m happier with Phil Hughes or Kennedy coming up in their place. It’s far more ideal than previous years.

    2. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 12:31 pm

      It’s safe to say that teams lose two starters during the season due to injury and ineffectiveness more often than you think.

    3. ken
      February 23rd, 2009 | 1:52 pm

      The Yanks are suffering now because they did not develop players for years. Is this Cash’s fault? There are so many parts to the Yankess FO that you never really know who is responsible. But given the circumstances of the past few years, he’s not doing so bad.

      I think we all knew that last year was something of a rebuilding year, at least by Yankee standards.

    4. butchie22
      February 23rd, 2009 | 1:59 pm

      It’s just today’s wild thought; but, what if this Cashman “40% Plan” fails for the third season in a row? It’s possible – Burnett has a checkered past and Chamberlain has yet to prove that he can be counted on to make 25+ starts at the big league level. Quote

      Can I say deja vu all over again? I like Joba’s stuuff but can he make the entire season? I hope so BUT doubt it. Burnit? He probably won’t make it a whole season and then what…..Plan B: PONSON!

      Ken the Yankees are suffering because of Ca$h Man’s inability to develop players like the REd Sox etc al. He had to spend over 425 mill oto not resign BUT sign people to fill his holes. In the last 3 years, he supposedly had full control… so he gets full blame as well.

    5. February 23rd, 2009 | 2:15 pm

      ~~Is this Cash’s fault?~~

      From reading the Torre book, it seems that it’s been all Cashman, running the show, for the last three years.

    6. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 2:16 pm

      The Yanks are suffering now because they did not develop players for years.
      ————
      I don’t know if I can agree with that, they have been able to find players in house, and if they weren’t available, they went outside the organization.

      2007: Hughes, Clippard, DeSalvo, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Wright, Karstens etc all got the call from within the organization.

      In recent years, Cano, Cabrera, Wang, were worked into the ML team. Hughes, Kennedy & Chamberlain had showed enough in 2007 that they were counted on in 2008.

    7. YankCrank
      February 23rd, 2009 | 2:22 pm

      The Yanks are suffering now because they did not develop players for years.
      ——

      This isn’t such an easy statement. Since 2005 we’ve seen a ton of homegrown, developed in-house players help us. Cano, Wang, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Gardner and numerous bullpen arms. I can agree that we have suffered from 2004-today because our homegrown talent hasn’t equalled what other teams, like the Sox, have produced, but our system certainly isn’t starved.

      We’re in a very good position right now. We have five viable starting pitchers with three arms ready to come up if needed (Hughes, Kennedy, Horne). We also have a ton of stockpiled, talented arms in the minors for a bullpen that will be cheap and seriously talented. We won’t need a 1B, 3B, or 2B prospect (and possible SS too, depending on Jeter’s future) to develop any time soon with Tex, A-Rod and Cano locked up for years. And where we need prospects because of aging stars or lack of stars, CF and C, those happen to be where our highest ceiling prospects are (Montero, Jackson). What else can you ask for?

      I know people are quick to slam Cashman for “taking control” in 2005 and having no championships to show for it, but it takes time to to build a system up. With the way our team is loaded this year, in theory, we shouldn’t have much to worry about…or even complain about. Come on guys, look at the team we have this year!

    8. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 2:26 pm

      Burnit? He probably won’t make it a whole season and then what…..Plan B: PONSON!
      ———-
      wat?

      The rotation is Sabathia-Wang-Burnett-Chamberlain-Pettitte. Giese or Aceves will be the long-man/spot starter

      Down on the farm at minimum you have Hughes-Kennedy and the lose of the Giese-Aceves battle. On top of that, you have Alan Horne, Erick Hacker, among others @ SWB and Trenton.

      Unless the Yanks suffer a ridiculous amount of injuries, it’s likely you will not see Ponson again.

    9. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 2:28 pm

      From reading the Torre book, it seems that it’s been all Cashman, running the show, for the last three years.
      ————
      Regardless, the Yanks haven’t been “suffering” because they haven’t developed players.

    10. YankCrank
      February 23rd, 2009 | 2:29 pm

      We know that Raf, but butchie likes to rip on Burnett in such a way that would make it seem like resigning Pavano would have been a better option. People seem to misunderstand that even if Burnett gets hurt, which he very well may get hurt, we have many viable arms to fill in for him in case the worst happens. We don’t need Burnett to pitch 235 innings, and that’s good for us.

    11. MJ
      February 23rd, 2009 | 2:45 pm

      From reading the Torre book, it seems that it’s been all Cashman, running the show, for the last three years.
      ————–
      Seems like Torre’s book needs some seasoning…like perhaps a few grains of salt.

    12. February 23rd, 2009 | 3:01 pm

      ~~Regardless, the Yanks haven’t been “suffering” because they haven’t developed players.~~

      You don’t call spending a half-billion dollars on three players this off-season suffering?

    13. February 23rd, 2009 | 3:02 pm

      ~~Seems like Torre’s book needs some seasoning…like perhaps a few grains of salt.~~

      Have you read it? If not, how would you know?

    14. MJ
      February 23rd, 2009 | 3:13 pm

      Have you read it? If not, how would you know?
      ——–
      Why would I need to read something to simply know that you shouldn’t believe everything you read?

    15. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 3:14 pm

      You don’t call spending a half-billion dollars on three players this off-season suffering?
      ———–
      Are the checks bouncing? Who’s suffering, while getting paid a 1/2 billion dollars?

    16. MJ
      February 23rd, 2009 | 3:15 pm

      You don’t call spending a half-billion dollars on three players this off-season suffering?
      —–
      Not unless you can prove that the Yankees wouldn’t have spent the money otherwise. Case in point, the Red Sox were prepared to spend $170M on Mark Teixeira, despite the fact that they already have Youkilis and Lowell (with Lars Anderson about 1 year away). Rich teams will spend on players they covet, regardless of the quality and reliability of their in-house talent pipeline.

    17. February 23rd, 2009 | 5:01 pm

      If the Yankees were to save money, say, by having a team that would win 100 games per season, and win in October, with a payroll closer to $75 million than, say, closer to $200 million, that doesn’t help the team? Really? Well, for one, it would be less luxury tax spent – which means less hand-outs to the other teams…which then helps the Yankees because teams like the Rays maybe would not go out and get a Pat Burrrell.

      See? Saving money, by making smarter/cheaper player moves, helps the Yankees. And, it’s just not about having extra money then to spend on OTHER players.

    18. Jeet
      February 23rd, 2009 | 5:23 pm

      What I have noticed is that only the “superstar” prospects have been able to survive in New York. By that I mean those with blazing fastballs, superior hitting talent and the like. The problem is that not many prospects in the Yankees organization are of the kind, which is why they have had to rely on average prospects over the past few years and the results have been atrocious. This I blame on Cashman since these are “his kids” and they have not helped the organization at all.

      But people do not need to get too depressed as it looks like Mark Melancon is going to live up to the hype:

      http://tinyurl.com/b89wma

      The only other reason we are upset with Cashman is because his draft picks are not as instant producers like Theo’s picks, i.e. Pedroia, and all the hype on Lars Anderson.

    19. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 5:57 pm

      If the Yankees were to save money, say, by having a team that would win 100 games per season, and win in October…
      ———–
      And if they don’t win in October? Why does that even factor in the equation?

      …with a payroll closer to $75 million than, say, closer to $200 million, that doesn’t help the team? Really?
      ———–
      Yes, really. Unless a team is bouncing checks, or otherwise can’t make payroll, then it’s irrelevant.

      Well, for one, it would be less luxury tax spent – which means less hand-outs to the other teams…which then helps the Yankees because teams like the Rays maybe would not go out and get a Pat Burrrell.
      ———–
      Who’s to say they wouldn’t? These players are going to play somewhere. Tampa Bay shed payroll themselves. Cliff Floyd? Gone. Rocco Baldelli? Gone. Hinske? Gone. What about the anticipated monies that comes with appearing in a World Series

      Besides, would you have preferred Burrell go to Boston? Toronto? Oakland? He wasn’t going back to Philly, they signed Ibanez to replace him.

      See? Saving money, by making smarter/cheaper player moves, helps the Yankees. And, it’s just not about having extra money then to spend on OTHER players.
      ——————-
      Other players that teams are willing to spend $$ on. The Yanks aren’t the only players with a high payroll. Boston, LA & Detroit added salary within the past few years. And it doesn’t even take into consideration dumb moves that teams make, like the Diamondbacks signing Garland, or the Phillies signing Ibanez instead of Burrell.

      If the Yanks don’t make any moves, it’s not going to stop other teams from making moves to improve themselves.

    20. February 23rd, 2009 | 6:14 pm

      Raf – do you know that as fact?

    21. February 23rd, 2009 | 6:15 pm

      Further Raf, show me the teams this offseason throwing money around – besides the Yankees, of course.

    22. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 6:22 pm

      Raf – do you know that as fact?
      ——–
      Do I know what? There was a lot of stuff covered…

    23. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 6:25 pm

      Further Raf, show me the teams this offseason throwing money around – besides the Yankees, of course.
      —————
      Dodgers, Cubs, Angels, Nats, Phillies, off the top of my head…

    24. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 6:27 pm

      Do I know what? There was a lot of stuff covered…
      ———–
      Assuming we’re talking of player movement, and being active in the market (trade or FA), teams have done it every year, why wouldn’t they do it in the 2008-09 offseason?

    25. David
      February 23rd, 2009 | 6:45 pm

      I’m unimpressed with Cashman’s performance. His signings this year mortgaged the future in a desperate attempt to win in 2009. One can pretty safely predict that Burnett will miss substanital time during the next 5 years. He may not even last 5 more years. And, note that in his “turnaround year” 2008, his ERA+ was 1.05 — only a bit above average.

      CC and Teix are top players, but there’s a good chance that one or other other will become ineffective before his contract runs out. Think of Donny’s back problems and innumerable pitchers with arm problems. ARod could also become ineffective with years left in his contract.

      And, bad signings do hamper the team. E.g., the signing of Matsui prevented the Yanks from signing Adam Dunn, a better hitter, who will sign for less money.

    26. Raf
      February 23rd, 2009 | 6:52 pm

      And, bad signings do hamper the team. E.g., the signing of Matsui prevented the Yanks from signing Adam Dunn, a better hitter, who will sign for less money.
      ————
      If the Yanks wanted Dunn, they would’ve signed him. They traded for Nick Swisher to play 1b, that didn’t stop them from signing Teix. They had a Cy Young Award winning closer, it didn’t stop them from signing Goose Gossage. They had a rotation of Cone-Wells-Pettitte-Duque-Irabu, that didn’t stop them from adding Roger Clemens.

      So on and so forth…

    27. AndrewYF
      February 23rd, 2009 | 8:18 pm

      I don’t understand how adding a 27/28 year old pitcher, who’s also one of the best pitchers in the game, and a 28/29 year old first baseman, who is one of the best first basemen in the game, is “mortgaging the future”. It sounds like the Yankees have a *fantastic* core for the next 4 years, at least. If you don’t sign players because you’re concerned they’ll be less effective on the last year of their contract, you’re either a small-market team or a dumb large-market team. It’s nice that Boston is saving money, but who are their players going to be in 4 to 5 years? Wouldn’t their team be undoubtedly *better* if they had signed Sabathia, Teixeira, etc.? Don’t confuse financial efficiency for intelligence.

    28. Evan3457
      February 23rd, 2009 | 8:21 pm

      Well, it depends.

      If Joba and Burnett go down with big injuries AND the in-house replacements also fail, AND he fails to correct in time AND the Yanks don’t make the postseason, then yes, Cashman could be done.

      If they go down with injuries and the Yanks make the playoffs anyway, especially if they advance at all, then, no, he won’t be gone.

      If they go down with injuries and the replacements work out decently, then he probably survives, whether they make it or not.

      If they go down with injuries and he can get decent help from outside for minimal cost, and they make it anyway, then he survives.

      That about covers it. Yup.

    29. February 23rd, 2009 | 9:53 pm

      [...] What If Cashman Goes 3 For 3 On the 40% Plan? / DEREK HEADED TO WBC WITH HURTIN’ HAMMY / CC’S FASTBALL PACKS THAT MAGICAL POP  [...]

    30. MJ
      February 24th, 2009 | 8:58 am

      I’m unimpressed with Cashman’s performance. His signings this year mortgaged the future in a desperate attempt to win in 2009.
      ———-
      How did this winter’s signings mortgage the future? Which players were cut loose to make room for the three new players? Which better players will now be relegated to the bench or the minors to make room for their more expensive teammates?

      I don’t see how the future was mortgaged. If anything, the future was bolstered because it gives the Yanks two players in their primes (Teixeira/Sabathia).

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