Blame Cash’s Stupidity For Not Fixing A-Rod Last October
Via Tyler Kepner -
[Yankees G.M. Brian] Cashman said the Yankees discovered an irregularity in Rodriguez’s hip last May when he underwent a magnetic resonance imaging exam for a right quadriceps injury. By June or July, the hitting coach Kevin Long said he could notice subtle changes in Rodriguez’s hitting, notably in his right foot — the back one in his stance.
The foot was not pivoting fully, Long said, and as a result, Rodriguez could not completely turn his waist and clear his hips. This caused his bat to drag and prevented him from driving through the ball and generating maximum power.
“Speed-wise, to catch up to 95-, 96-mile-an-hour pitches, you’ve basically got to get your hips through,” Long said. “It affects bat speed, power, balance. From a technical standpoint, it affects quite a few things. But he’s so gifted and so talented that he made do with what he had.”
Cashman said Rodriguez had always had stiff hips, and there was no need to examine him after the season. The condition was so minor, Cashman said, that Rodriguez did not seek treatment from team trainers last season.
“That’s why I termed it as an incidental finding,” Cashman said. “If you took an M.R.I. right now of everybody in our clubhouse, you are going to find in many of them — 20 percent, 30 percent, 40 percent — the same finding. Just because they have it doesn’t mean it’s a problem. Just because you have it doesn’t mean you need surgery.
“So that’s why you put it in the file,” he said. “You treat the patient, not the symptom. You don’t treat the M.R.I. You treat the patient.”
…You treat the patient, not the symptom. You don’t treat the M.R.I. You treat the patient…
Then why even bother doing an M.R.I.? Well, this explains why Cashman ignored Carl Pavano’s health history when he signed him for forty million…
Then why even bother doing an M.R.I.? Well, this explains why Cashman ignored Carl Pavano’s health history when he signed him for forty million…
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Also explains why some players wait until after the season until undergoing surgery.
Did you honestly expect Cashman force Rodriguez to undergo surgery?
[...] among us who do not like Cashman are right to express outrage and incredulity at this latest revelation. The Yankees showed here an unwillingness to treat potential injuries [...]
[...] (props to WW) [...]
[...] to WW) Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)A-Rod Responds to Canseco, Cashman Not [...]
Just pathetic.
If the player is playing, and not complaining, and not seeing a doctor on his own, getting a 2nd opinion, Cashman is SUPPOSED to force him to the doctor, and force him into surgery, on the basis of “stiffness”, and no other symptom?
Are you kidding me?
Nope, sadly, you’re not.
~~Cashman is SUPPOSED to force him to the doctor, and force him into surgery, on the basis of “stiffness”, and no other symptom?~~
Force? No.
Educate and Persuade? Yes.
You explain to the player what his condition is, show him the MRI, have him counsult with experts, and educate him on the situation. And, then you persuade him to do the right thing for him AND the team, but having the situation addressed during the off-season, when the downtime would enable recovery, etc.
That’s what a good GM would do in this spot.
Claiming “You don’t treat the M.R.I. You treat the patient…” is terrible.
How many people feel 100% fine – no complaints whatsoever – and then a scan shows that they have cancer? Believe me, it happens. I’ve seen it happen.
In that case, since the person has no complaints or issues, do you say “You don’t treat the scan. You treat the patient…” and then just ignore the cancer? Of course not.
And, this situation is no different.
Sorry, Steve, not buying it. I would bet that Cash was not even aware of the hip issue. However, even if he was, players have nicks, bruises, and irregularities all the time, they do not follow up on all of them, only the ones that the player tells them is continuing to bother them.
Claiming “You don’t treat the M.R.I. You treat the patient…” is terrible.
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No, it’s common sense. You going to tell me in all these years that you’ve been watching baseball that you’ve never seen a player decline surgery if he felt that he didn’t need it?
I would bet that Cash was not even aware of the hip issue.
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I doubt that.
yagottagotomo1 – Cashman was not aware? Did you miss the part of Tyler’s report where it read:
Cashman said the Yankees discovered an irregularity in Rodriguez’s hip last May when he underwent a magnetic resonance imaging exam for a right quadriceps injury. By June or July, the hitting coach Kevin Long said he could notice subtle changes in Rodriguez’s hitting, notably in his right foot — the back one in his stance.
?
~~You going to tell me in all these years that you’ve been watching baseball that you’ve never seen a player decline surgery if he felt that he didn’t need it?~~
I’ve seen players delay surgery when they needed it – but, never 100% decline it – when they had a situation like this one where it’s only going to get worse, and never get better, without surgery.
And, that’s what should have happened here. When it was discovered during 2008, they should have delayed the surgery until the off-season, when he would have time to heal/rehab without missing much time, etc.
But, instead, they did nothing during the off-season and now he’s probably going to miss a good chunk of 2009 – or play with a condition that’s gotten much more worse. That’s the issue here.
I’m normally a big Cash fan and i’m quick to defend him. But if it’s true that he knew about this and elected to ignore it, that’s just a piss poor move. They have so much money invested into this man and they should be taking any precaution and looking at it seriously.
I’ve never worked in a professional sports organization so idk who actually is to blame for this, but whomever made the decision to ignore this made a very poor decision.
But, instead, they did nothing during the off-season
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So you don’t think Rodriguez didn’t notice anything during his offseason training program?
A GM can only do so much. Unless Rodriguez complains that something is out of the ordinary then Cashman is not going to do anything…
By June or July, the hitting coach Kevin Long said he could notice subtle changes in Rodriguez’s hitting
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FWIW
June: .366-.455/.693 (1.148)
July: .337-.413/.621 (1.034)
Steve, just because it says that the Yankees discovered an irregularity in May does not mean that Cashman was informed about it. The medical staff knew about it, but if they deemed it not important enough to be pursued, it is not ridiculous to suggest that Cashman was not told. I doubt he gets notice of every irregularity on every player, being that most have some sort of issue due to the strain on their bodies.
I doubt he gets notice of every irregularity on every player
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With Pavano on the team, he’d never leave the office if he did receive a notice of every irregularity on a player
~~just because it says that the Yankees discovered an irregularity in May does not mean that Cashman was informed about it. The medical staff knew about it, but if they deemed it not important enough to be pursued, it is not ridiculous to suggest that Cashman was not told.~~
Really? I would think that the GM would want to know what’s up with his $27 million player if he just had a minor headache.
So at what price do the doctors bring little stuff to the GM? Do they say, Swisher makes 6 million, so we wont tell Brian, but Matsui makes 12, so give him a call? Either he gets given seemingly insignificant info or not. I would guess not, but I cant guarantee that. And again, even if he did know, if he went with the medical advice given, how do you pin this on him? It was incidental, and there was no pain!
Bottom line, if there’s something going on with one of his “assets,” it’s Cashman’s job to make sure he’s in the loop and keeps his finger on the pulse – alebit minor or not – that’s his job.
~~A GM can only do so much.~~
Make that “The current Yankees GM can only do so much.”
And my point is that if he is not informed that something is going on, there is no way to keep a finger on the pulse.
Steve, Mo:
Can we agree on something? The Yankees organization fucked this one up. Neither of us know exactly who can be pinpointed for this. Is Cashman at fault? Of course, when you invest that much money into a player you need to know if he has hickups or not. However, at the same time we don’t know without a reasonable doubt that it’s squarely on his shoulders. The doctors could have also had a hand in this along with others that we just don’t know about. So I think we can all agree that more than one person had something to do with this, and collectively, it was a poor job.
I think this should be less Cashman bashing and more “The Red Sox and Phillies identified these problems in their players and fixed it in the offseason, why couldn’t the Yankees?”
Nope. I think injuries happen, and they are not anyone’s fault. However, if Steve wants to write a 400000 word opus on Cashman’s poor bench building, which doesnt leave him with an option better than Ransom, I will be the first to agree. That is where I think Cash should be getting killed here- not for what happened, but for the lack of a backup plan when everyone knew the bench was weak.
That is where I think Cash should be getting killed here- not for what happened, but for the lack of a backup plan when everyone knew the bench was weak.
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There is no way to accurately plan for missing A-Rod. If you look at his Vorp and Warp, there is no person you can stick on your bench and make up for the loss of A-Rod. We would all love to see a bench with amazing players sitting on them but those players start. Who would you have put on the bench other than Cody Ransom?
Nope. I think injuries happen, and they are not anyone’s fault.
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Of course injuries happen, I agree with you there. However this “injury” was supposedly spotted last year and they didn’t do anything about it. The Red Sox saw it with Lowell and he had his surgery, guess who’s full strength right now? The Phillies saw it with Utley, and he’ll miss minimal time and be full strength soon. Why couldn’t the Yankees have done this?
Again, i’m not sure whose fault it is but it’s somebody’s. If the reports are true and this injury was spotted last year, there is no reason he should still have a torn labrum in his hip, and at the same time, being left with a decision between playing less than 100% or missing him for half a year. I love Cash, and I love the Yanks, but this was irresponsible.
The Yankees used to get veteran players who used to be stars for their bench all the time. Ransom is not a prospect, he is a 32 year old never has been. If he was a legit prospect, Id be willing to bet on him to out produce a Rich Aurilia, or Grudz, or Durham, or Loretta, guys who have hit in the past and showed some flashes last season.There were plenty of veteran infielders available at reasonable prices this offseason.
If he was a legit prospect, Id be willing to bet on him to out produce a Rich Aurilia, or Grudz, or Durham, or Loretta, guys who have hit in the past and showed some flashes last season
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I think the fact that Grudz and Durham are still available, with 30 teams having a shot at them, speaks a lot about what they could offer the Yankees from their bench.
If you need to blame anyone, I would either say the doctors made an error in dismissing it, or A-Rod made in error in ignoring it all winter, assuming he felt it all winter.
That has a lot more to do with the economic climate. Durham is certainly still an above average offensive player, and Grudz still has an OBP about .345, meaning both are likely to be better than Ransom.
Mo, check out what Ransom did in his 33 games with the Yanks last year:
BA: .302
HR: 4
OPS: 1.051
UZR at 3B: +35.1
Very small sample size so don’t take these numbers to mean he’s going to be an amazing player, but I think in the chances he was given he showed that he can hit the ball, slug the ball, get on base, hit with some pop and play solid defense. That and he makes next to no money. Who else do you want on your bench? I don’t see how Grudz, Durham, Aurillia or Loretta could be better than that…even if you just put cost into consideration.
Grudz still has an OBP about .345, meaning both are likely to be better than Ransom.
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Small sample size again, but Ransom had an OBP of .400. When he was given chances, he produced very well
That was in a very small sample. Check out Shelley Duncan from the end of ’07, but no one wants him on the bench. I just think you are more likely to catch lightning in a bottle with Durham or Grudz than Ransom. If Ransom is that good, what took him so long to even touch a MLB roster?
I don’t think he’s that good, I made sure to say multiple times it’s a very small sample size so don’t expect that kind of contribution. Even if for some reason Grudz or Durham perform better than Ransom, which they very well can, it brings us back to our original point…how would they even be a viable option for filling in for A-Rod?
They aren’t, and nobody available can be. Grudz and Durham are so deep into decline that you’re better off giving the job to a younger, better athlete in Ransom. A-Rod’s value is so high that nobody reasonably available can replace him, unless you want to trade away some high prospects for a guy that’s only going to replace A-Rod for a half season. Does that seem worth it?
Yes, it does. Every win counts with the competition in the division. If losing Alex for Ransom costs you 4 wins, but losing him for Durham costs you three, isnt the couple a million bucks you pay for them worth it? And yes, Ransom is younger, but there is little evidence that he is better. He’s 32, not 25, he’s not likely to be better than what he has been, a 4A player.
I believe A-Rod’s WARP was at a 7.1 in 2008, which was still considered a down year for his standards. Sample sizes apart, the Yanks saw something they liked in Ransom and are deciding (at this point) to give him a shot.
Also, I don’t think Ray Durham has played a game at 3b in his professional career. Grudzy has only played about 30 of them. They are in their late 30′s and in decline, maybe now isn’t the time to throw them at the hot corner.
Listen, I see your point. However, if there was something that Ray Durham, Grudzy, or any of those guys you listed could do better than Ransom, they would have been signed. The Yanks aren’t poor, if they saw a substantial difference in talent they would have dumped Ransom for one of these guys, but they haven’t. That says something.
Bottom line, if there’s something going on with one of his “assets,” it’s Cashman’s job to make sure he’s in the loop and keeps his finger on the pulse – alebit minor or not – that’s his job.
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BC: Hey Alex, Cash here, where are you?
AR: In the gym
BC: How’s the hip?
AR: Fine, squatting 500 now
BC: Ok, let us know if something’s up.
Anyway, point is, if Rodriguez says he can go, if the doctors say he can go, then what’s the problem?
If anything, take issue with the team doctors
**The condition was so minor, Cashman said, that Rodriguez did not seek treatment from team trainers last season.**
Jon Heyman’s latest column goes through a list of potential low-cost replacements for A-Rod. One name that I found intriguing was Blake Dewitt from the Dodgers. It would require a trade, but I’m wondering how much it would take to get him. Anyone else have any feelings on Dewitt?
It would require a trade, but I’m wondering how much it would take to get him
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Given that he’s blocked by Casey Blake, probably not much. Dodgers need pitching.
“You explain to the player what his condition is, show him the MRI, have him counsult with experts, and educate him on the situation. And, then you persuade him to do the right thing for him AND the team, but having the situation addressed during the off-season, when the downtime would enable recovery, etc.”
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There was no “condition” in October. He played, without pain, through some “stiffness”. The MRI showed “irregularities” which a not very tiny percentages of all MRI for athletes do, especially after a long season.
Since he played reasonably well, and there was no specific ailment or condition that warranted doing anything significant, there was no reason to chase down a shadow of a doubt, and every reason to think that with the winter to rest, the stiffness would resolve itself.
A-Rod insists there was no pain. In this situation, the GM can make one of two assumptions.
1) The player is lying. (Admittedly, the NOW looks like a much more likely scenario than it would’ve back in October.) In this event, there is nothing Cashman can say or do, as he has nothing specific to point to except irregularities.
2) The player is telling the truth. In this case, it is far more likely that it is seasonal wear and tear, and again, nothing the GM can or should do about it.
A GM can’t force a player to chase down every minor ailment. The idea that Long noticing A-Rod’s swing had changed is also not that significant, because that probably happens to a number of players every year as they adjust their playing styles to minor aches and pains; aches and pains that heal themselves in the offseason.
In the absence of solid medical evidence of a real problem, or the player complaining of more significant symptoms, or the player telling anyone in management or in the team’s medical department that he was unable to play, there is no real reason for anyone to do anything.
(I have read in several places that a large percentage of MRI show “irregularities”; without being able to specifically diagnose a problem, there’s simply nothing sensible to do.)
In the event, the Yanks are saying that several specialists have told them they think A-Rod can get through the season as he is, after rest and rehab.
I doubt it, but then, I’m not a doctor. We’ll see.
I am a doctor, and an “irregularity” on any image, particularly if the image was of one part of the body and the “irregularity” was on another, is vague and fairly meaningless.
The only way to decide who needs to be held accountable for this, is to see the medical reports from the radiologist and the orthopedist. If either thought it was prudent last spring to image his hip or that it warranted further examination, that’s one thing. But as likely as anything else, a radiologist could have noted it because he saw something that was ill-defined, and everyone else dismissed it.
My disposition towards Cashman has become more and more sour with every passing year, but knowing how things like this happen, it is extremely difficult, without the details of the entire case, to hang him here.