WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 3/11/09
Posted by Steve L. on March 11th, 2009 · Comments (23)
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Who else besides me was pleased to see Joba look better last night? It’s spring training so it may not really matter, but it’s still more fun to see Joba do well than to see him getting rocked.
Honestly i was a little concerned in the 1st, he didn’t finish his pitches at all and looked like he was half assing it (or what i thought was a possible injury)
True, but he looked better over the next two. The velocity was there so at least we know it’s not necessarily an injury thing and may have been just a mechanical/motivation thing.
ya i was relieved when he stopped throwing like that…although i do recall seeing him throw like that last year as a get mo over type of pitch. I think this could be a mistake cause its pretty clear, at least to me, that his delivery is different when he throws the 90-92 mph fastball, and hitters could adjust
Anyone else think it’s awesome that the Netherlands beat the Dominican Republic AGAIN yesterday, if only to get Robbie and Marte back in camp?
Anyone else think it’s awesome that the Netherlands beat the Dominican Republic AGAIN yesterday, if only to get Robbie and Marte back in camp?
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That’s the main reason, yeah. I was rooting against the DR from the start. Honestly, and I feel bad, but just looking at Robbie last night at the plate and in the field, I have absolutely no confidence in him what-so-ever. Possibly in the negative. I guess his performance last year is still fresh in my mind, here’s hoping he can become an exciting player again.
Who else besides me was pleased to see Joba look better last night?
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I was happy to see him locate that fastball and throw the curve for a strike. Spring Training is all about little steps, and he took some last night. I was also happy to see how well Gardner and Ransom were playing.
he hada nice base hit through the right side of IF in last nights game (cano)
Anyone else think it’s awesome that the Netherlands beat the Dominican Republic AGAIN yesterday, if only to get Robbie and Marte back in camp?
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We’re talking about two ML veterans, I don’t think Yankee camp will be of that much benefit to them.
I think it’s cool that the Netherlands won, if only for the fact that they weren’t given much chance against the powerhouse DR team.
if it turns out posada can only catch half the time, would you like to see the yanks kick the tires on ramon castro?
Good article on how putting Nady in right over Swish is just retarded, and also how Swish’s Runs Against Replacement is just about equal to Manny’s. I feel it goes a little deeper than FanGraphs explanation of the right field battle. Check it out…
(Note: Not for the “OMG he only hit .219 last year!!!” people)
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2009/3/4/752173/a-stupid-position-battle-y
We’re talking about two ML veterans, I don’t think Yankee camp will be of that much benefit to them.
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I really only added that to keep it “Yankee-focused.” I really just wanted to inject the Netherlands game into the conversation here.
correction, Runs “Above” Replacement
Yankee Stadium 3D model project
http://www.digitalcentrality.com/Yankee_Stadium/
(HT to Bronx Banter)
Good article on how putting Nady in right over Swish is just retarded, and also how Swish’s Runs Against Replacement is just about equal to Manny’s. I feel it goes a little deeper than FanGraphs explanation of the right field battle. Check it out… Quote by Crank
The article should have been who was shittier last season?!!! Nady was mediocre, but Swish was just plain shitty. The luck argument is a bunch of sabermetric bull. Any player including Arod could have that luck metric used to explain his less than Arod season last year. I’m not bullish on either Nady or Swisher BUT Nady is playing for a contract and it is funny how well players put on a show when they are singing for their supper. Swish, I’m not expecting much from him BUT I like his grittiness and his positive Giambi-like attitude. Then again, it’s playing on the field that matters most and let’s see how that plays out……
you know what was nice that i forgot to add? listenin to kitty broadcast the dominican/netherlands game…i miss that dude
The luck argument is a bunch of sabermetric bull.
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Because you don’t understand something does not make it bull.
Even if you want to go off one year, Swisher has had a series of better years, unlike Nady, who hasn’t.
Swisher is the better player, hands down. He’s a better hitter, he’s a better fielder. All Nady has is a hot 1/2 season with the Pirates. The Nady you saw with the Yanks is representative of his career.
I’m not bullish on either Nady or Swisher BUT Nady is playing for a contract and it is funny how well players put on a show when they are singing for their supper. Swish, I’m not expecting much from him BUT I like his grittiness and his positive Giambi-like attitude.
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You know who else is gritty and has a positive attitude and is always playing for a contract?
Miguel Cairo.
You know else?
Enrique Wilson. Or John Flaherty. Or any number of other thoroughly sucky players.
So, you know, you’ll pardon me if I don’t put too much stock in the grittiness, positive attitude, playing for a contract index.
flaherty fears the knuckler
You know who else is gritty and has a positive attitude and is always playing for a contract?
Miguel Cairo.
You know else?
Enrique Wilson. Or John Flaherty. Or any number of other thoroughly sucky players.
So, you know, you’ll pardon me if I don’t put too much stock in the grittiness, positive attitude, playing for a contract index.Quote from Justin
Justin, what are you talking about? No offense, but did you even read my post? I said that Swisher was shitty last year.What part of shitty don’t you understand. Does it have a positive connotation where you come from? That’s hardly a ringing endorsement for him. My posts prior to this one about Swisher have also been negative. I ultimately don’t think he will be that great this year and have stated that repeatedly. I also mention it about being about play in the field, don’t I? That trumps grittiness AND guttiness every time. I in no way claim that said grittiness will assist them in on the field, just the opposite. I want to see what all these pro-Swisher folks are talking about and see if this attitude and grittiness translates to the field. He’s a good clubhouse guy BUT I don’t like his defense or his offense judging from his shitty year last year. So that negates your hypothesis about Swisher.
And Miguel Cairo? Unh? What an apropo of nothing example, if I have ever saw one. Cairo is a nice role player BUT the last time I checked , Nady has been a starter on the Mets, Yanks and Pirates he wasn’t a spare part like Cairo is/was on most teams he’s been on. There were tons of discussion coming from Mets fans on getting Nady in a trade because of their needs.He is not a great player by any stretch BUT he ain’t no bench player either. BTW, I mentioned that he was mediocre last season…did you catch that or do I have to remind you…you might have missed that one too.
To make this abundantly clear, because you have an inherent disconnect to my major point, I’ll make it clearer for you. I’m not BULLISH on either player. BUT when a starting player (not a bench/backup sub like Flaherty/Cairo/Wilson) is playing for a contract that usually means something. They are usually playing for said contract. I notice that you didn’t debunk that myth about AJ Burnit, you actually pitched a whole season last year for the first time since when? The contract year of his time with the Marlins! And even then AJ was told to leave the team at the end of the season (the malcontent was fired at the end of the season)!Nady is not Burnit BUT Burnit ain’t Halladay either! You have to be kidding me if you think that a contract year doesn’t motivate a player…….Manram must have done well for posterity’s sake right? It was all about his legacy , he performed like a champ because he loved LA? BS, he was playing for a new contract! Once agin, Nady ain’t Manram BUT he sure as heck ain’t Cairo either.
Butchie…I think the point that Justin was trying to make is that contract years don’t trump talent and historically, Swisher is a better hitter than Nady. Last year was an outlier for both of them, and in most cases, you’d think you’d want to go for the guy whose regression to the mean was going to cause him to produce better, not worse.
Butchie-
In my gleeful snark, I admit my point was less than clear. But what I meant was that grittiness and positive attitude and playing for a contract don’t mean anything, or if they do, they mean very little.
I get that you don’t like Nady and Swisher. Nonetheless, you went on to compare them using these largely useless markers while shrugging off useful analysis as sabermetric bunk. That annoys me. Hence my poorly thought out, gleeful snark.
In all seriousness, Butchie, you’re continued dismissal of all nontraditional statistics mostly annoys me because it puts me in the position of arguing that things like grit and attitude are meaningless, when in fact I find them an important part of the story of the game. And story matters! But it’s not really helpful as predictive analysis. And I don’t see why we can’t appreciate both story and sabermetric analysis as important parts of baseball.
(If, BTW, I’ve misread you, Butchie, though I don’t think I have, then I apologize and offer you an imaginary coke.)
*your
Damn typos.