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	<title>Comments on: Why It&#8217;s Past-A-Divin&#8217; Jeter?</title>
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	<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/</link>
	<description>Holy Cow! We never take cannoli from a huckleberry.</description>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147146</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147146</guid>
		<description>I was simply saying that his offense does not make up for his defense as much as Posada, since Posada puts up great offensive numbers at a premium position. Whereas Jeter puts up good/great offensive numbers at a position where there are many other players better than him.
================
Okay, I mostly agree with this. I would be careful, though, about overstating the number of shortstops who are better than Jeter in the league right now. He&#039;s easily still one of the top ten.

Posada&#039;s top two or three, though, so I see what you&#039;re saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Justin');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147146','Justin');" /></div><span id="co_147146"><p>I was simply saying that his offense does not make up for his defense as much as Posada, since Posada puts up great offensive numbers at a premium position. Whereas Jeter puts up good/great offensive numbers at a position where there are many other players better than him.<br />
================<br />
Okay, I mostly agree with this. I would be careful, though, about overstating the number of shortstops who are better than Jeter in the league right now. He&#8217;s easily still one of the top ten.</p>
<p>Posada&#8217;s top two or three, though, so I see what you&#8217;re saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147139</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147139</guid>
		<description>I don’t recall saying his defense was declining.
==============
You didn&#039;t. I was just pointing it out. He&#039;s still a good player as of now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Justin');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147139','Justin');" /></div><span id="co_147139"><p>I don’t recall saying his defense was declining.<br />
==============<br />
You didn&#8217;t. I was just pointing it out. He&#8217;s still a good player as of now.</p>
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		<title>By: YankCrank</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147138</link>
		<dc:creator>YankCrank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147138</guid>
		<description>All things being equal, the Yanks protect the brand much more than anything else.
-----

Agreed, in all honesty...why else do they brand themselves as &quot;needing&quot; to win a championship every year when everybody knows it&#039;s impossible? It won&#039;t matter, but I think they need a slight rebranding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('YankCrank');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147138','YankCrank');" /></div><span id="co_147138"><p>All things being equal, the Yanks protect the brand much more than anything else.<br />
&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Agreed, in all honesty&#8230;why else do they brand themselves as &#8220;needing&#8221; to win a championship every year when everybody knows it&#8217;s impossible? It won&#8217;t matter, but I think they need a slight rebranding.</p>
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		<title>By: MJ</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147137</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147137</guid>
		<description>and take a hit from the fans and the money they pour into the team through ticket, sales, memorabilia, etc
----------
I should add, however, that I think the idea that there would be a fan backlash is totally overblown.  Fans may talk tough and swear they&#039;ll boycott on some moral grounds but they rarely ever follow through.  I know I&#039;ve made similar idle threats in my life. ;-)

Jeter would be missed and some fans would be really upset (as they were post-Bernie) but within a few weeks, it would all have blown over.  Especially if the Yanks replaced Jeter with another marquee name, say someone like Hanley Ramirez...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('MJ');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147137','MJ');" /></div><span id="co_147137"><p>and take a hit from the fans and the money they pour into the team through ticket, sales, memorabilia, etc<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
I should add, however, that I think the idea that there would be a fan backlash is totally overblown.  Fans may talk tough and swear they&#8217;ll boycott on some moral grounds but they rarely ever follow through.  I know I&#8217;ve made similar idle threats in my life. <img src='http://waswatching.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Jeter would be missed and some fans would be really upset (as they were post-Bernie) but within a few weeks, it would all have blown over.  Especially if the Yanks replaced Jeter with another marquee name, say someone like Hanley Ramirez&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MJ</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147136</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147136</guid>
		<description>Here’s a twist, do you think the Yanks decision to keep/loose Jeter after 2010 will be more reliant on his production or the pr/marketing backlash?
---------
The PR/marketing, of course.  All things being equal, the Yanks protect the brand much more than anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('MJ');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147136','MJ');" /></div><span id="co_147136"><p>Here’s a twist, do you think the Yanks decision to keep/loose Jeter after 2010 will be more reliant on his production or the pr/marketing backlash?<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
The PR/marketing, of course.  All things being equal, the Yanks protect the brand much more than anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: YankCrank</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147135</link>
		<dc:creator>YankCrank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147135</guid>
		<description>sorry, pour not poor...that was terrible grammar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('YankCrank');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147135','YankCrank');" /></div><span id="co_147135"><p>sorry, pour not poor&#8230;that was terrible grammar</p>
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		<title>By: YankCrank</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147134</link>
		<dc:creator>YankCrank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147134</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a twist, do you think the Yanks decision to keep/loose Jeter after 2010 will be more reliant on his production or the pr/marketing backlash?

Just an example, although not comparable in any way. I think we can assume that, for a large reason, A-Rod was retained because of the hundreds of millions in marketing dollars he&#039;d bring in with a &quot;clean&quot; home run chase. That could very well bite the Yanks in the butt now...which kind of brings into the question are the Yankees more of a ball team or a traveling production show? Anyway, will Jeter be brought back because of the money he generates as the Captain of the Yankees, or will they recognize that a 38-year-old shortstop isn&#039;t the best for the team and take a hit from the fans and the money they poor into the team through ticket, sales, memorabilia, etc.?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('YankCrank');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147134','YankCrank');" /></div><span id="co_147134"><p>Here&#8217;s a twist, do you think the Yanks decision to keep/loose Jeter after 2010 will be more reliant on his production or the pr/marketing backlash?</p>
<p>Just an example, although not comparable in any way. I think we can assume that, for a large reason, A-Rod was retained because of the hundreds of millions in marketing dollars he&#8217;d bring in with a &#8220;clean&#8221; home run chase. That could very well bite the Yanks in the butt now&#8230;which kind of brings into the question are the Yankees more of a ball team or a traveling production show? Anyway, will Jeter be brought back because of the money he generates as the Captain of the Yankees, or will they recognize that a 38-year-old shortstop isn&#8217;t the best for the team and take a hit from the fans and the money they poor into the team through ticket, sales, memorabilia, etc.?</p>
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		<title>By: thenewguy</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147133</link>
		<dc:creator>thenewguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147133</guid>
		<description>Wait, what? Is this really what you meant to say? That his bad defense outweighs his good offense to form a below average player? Because, if so, I’m pretty sure you’re totally wrong.
----------------

Justin, I wasn&#039;t saying that Jeter was a below average player. I was simply saying that his offense does not make up for his defense as much as Posada, since Posada puts up great offensive numbers at a premium position. Whereas Jeter puts up good/great offensive numbers at a position where there are many other players better than him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('thenewguy');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147133','thenewguy');" /></div><span id="co_147133"><p>Wait, what? Is this really what you meant to say? That his bad defense outweighs his good offense to form a below average player? Because, if so, I’m pretty sure you’re totally wrong.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Justin, I wasn&#8217;t saying that Jeter was a below average player. I was simply saying that his offense does not make up for his defense as much as Posada, since Posada puts up great offensive numbers at a premium position. Whereas Jeter puts up good/great offensive numbers at a position where there are many other players better than him.</p>
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		<title>By: MJ</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147132</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147132</guid>
		<description>Further, there’s not really any evidence his defense is declining, considering he was perfectly mediocre with the glove last year by most metrics. Obviously, we have to see what he does this year, but I really think it’s a mistake to write him off as of now.
-------
I don&#039;t recall saying his defense was declining.  It was never really that good to begin with.

As far as his offense, yes, that&#039;s a fairly consistent level of output and it&#039;s certainly possible that last year was just a down year.  I&#039;m not one that particularly believes that, but I&#039;ll certainly accept it as an argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('MJ');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147132','MJ');" /></div><span id="co_147132"><p>Further, there’s not really any evidence his defense is declining, considering he was perfectly mediocre with the glove last year by most metrics. Obviously, we have to see what he does this year, but I really think it’s a mistake to write him off as of now.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
I don&#8217;t recall saying his defense was declining.  It was never really that good to begin with.</p>
<p>As far as his offense, yes, that&#8217;s a fairly consistent level of output and it&#8217;s certainly possible that last year was just a down year.  I&#8217;m not one that particularly believes that, but I&#8217;ll certainly accept it as an argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/03/20/why-its-past-a-divin-jeter/comment-page-1/#comment-147131</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=11779#comment-147131</guid>
		<description>The offense is still OK, although it’s getting worse every year. 
===================
Not really true. His offense was worse last year. Over the course of his career, though, it&#039;s been pretty consistent. Career OPS+&#039;s:

101, 103, 127, 153, 128, 123, 111, 125, 114, 125, 132, 121, 102

OPS+ doesn&#039;t tell the whole story, obviously, but I&#039;m not really seeing any steady decline there. It&#039;s possible his down season last year represents a drop-off to his early seasons, but it&#039;s just as likely that he just had a down year. 

Further, there&#039;s not really any evidence his defense is declining, considering he was perfectly mediocre with the glove last year by most metrics. Obviously, we have to see what he does this year, but I really think it&#039;s a mistake to write him off as of now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Justin');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_147131','Justin');" /></div><span id="co_147131"><p>The offense is still OK, although it’s getting worse every year.<br />
===================<br />
Not really true. His offense was worse last year. Over the course of his career, though, it&#8217;s been pretty consistent. Career OPS+&#8217;s:</p>
<p>101, 103, 127, 153, 128, 123, 111, 125, 114, 125, 132, 121, 102</p>
<p>OPS+ doesn&#8217;t tell the whole story, obviously, but I&#8217;m not really seeing any steady decline there. It&#8217;s possible his down season last year represents a drop-off to his early seasons, but it&#8217;s just as likely that he just had a down year. </p>
<p>Further, there&#8217;s not really any evidence his defense is declining, considering he was perfectly mediocre with the glove last year by most metrics. Obviously, we have to see what he does this year, but I really think it&#8217;s a mistake to write him off as of now.</p>
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