May 20th vs. The Orioles
Hey, eight in a row!
I only saw the first two innings of this one – and then had sundry peeks back at it during American Idol commerical breaks. So, I really can’t comment on too much – being that it would all be second-hand commentary…or something like that.
But, I do want to say this: The Baltimore Orioles stink.
I became a fan of the Yankees, and major league baseball, back in 1973. At that time, the Orioles were one of the best teams in the American League – finishing first in the A.L. East in ’73 and taking the division crown in three of the four years before that season.
From 1974 through 1982, Earl Weaver always had those O’s making an excellent showing more times than not. And, of course, Baltimore won it all in 1983.
The late 1980′s were not great for the Birds. However, they rebounded in the 1990′s to post some good seasons…
But, since 2000…well…like I said, the Orioles have, and still do, stink.
Recently, Baltimore’s owner Peter Angelos was rated the “worst owner of MLB” by Sports Illustrated – for “stripping down one of baseball’s proudest franchises.” Man, amen to that…and my condolences to Orioles fans, everywhere.
Hey, you saw plenty- four runs by the Yankees, including three straight homers, and a sharp Hughes at that point. The most important thing I took from the game was how confident Aceves looked, and the Mendoza-esque way Joe used him.
yagottagotomo1 wrote:
The B-T-B-T-B HRs were nice to see, Hughes, sharp? I saw him throw something like 25 pitches in the 2nd inning. How is that sharp?
BTW, what was up with the Melky AB later in the game? When I peeked, Joe was on the field and Singleton was saying something like “It’s funny unless it happens to you…”
I believe the ball got him in the, um, area.
That’s what it seemed like. Thanks.
For whom the bell tolls Leche…it tolls for thee.
Oh, and really? Hughes did not look sharp to you at that point? Because he did to me, he did to Michael Kay, and he did to Ken Singleton. They loved his entire appearance. he did give up three runs and only go five, I dont want to glorify that. but his stuff looked really good, he just made two very bad pitches that he needs to work on.
I was impressed with Phil. Kept it close, and had a career high 9 Ks. Hope he builds on it. Also, I have Swish, Melk and Cano on my fantasy team. Guess whos kickin butt? This guy!
I doubt he gets a chance to build on it, which is fine. I was impressed, but he still needs to work on consistency in the minors.
Hughes start was a mixed bag. His FB had real life up in the zone, and the O’s chased it and couldn’t catch up with it, for the most part. On the other hand, they hit two home runs off him in 5 innings one of them a howitzer blast, several other very hard hit base hits, several hard hit balls that were not base hits, and a several loud fouls.
He was NOT dominant, despite the 9 K’s. Too inconsistent in both location and movement.
You can’t be “dominant” if they’re hitting shots all over the park on you, no matter how many you whiff.
It was BETTER than his recent work. It was NOT good enough. He still has a long way to go. The good news is, if the Yanks are willing, he has a lot of time to get there.
I agree Evan, that he has a ways to go..but in fairness, it WAS good enough. He only gave up 3ER to a good hitting team. It would have been nice for him to go longer, but i’ll take 3ER. CC and AJ have givin up 7+ in some of their starts.
Steve Lombardi wrote:
melky fouled a ball off the plate and it bounced back into his nuts…lol the best part was Gene Monahan comin out and melky bein all embarassed and pushing him away…
as for hughes, I disagree with you yogottagotomo, he did not look as sharp as you say. The only reason he had 7 out of the 9 k’s is because the orioles hitters were swinging at anything. They were all fastballs that missed their target. Tonight Hughes’ heater was higher velocity wise, but it looked like he had less control of it, and was a bit wild because of it. But the orioles were swinging at anything, so you get 9 k’s. 3 runs in 5 innings is still a poor outing.
Let’s put it this way, if he pitched the same exact way he did tonight to the Sox, he would have been out by the 2nd or 3rd inning
Corey wrote:
Good pitchers get hitters to swing at pitches out of the zone. I’m not saying he was great, I’m saying his stuff looked very good.
Also, it is not like he was striking out the bottom of the lineup. He struck out Roberts once, Jones and Huff twice, and Markakis three times, plus Andino once. Most of his K’s came against 4 very good hitters.
Good pitchers also hit their spots, and Hughes did that maybe a handful of times last night. That, against a team that doesn’t consider its season over, is the recipe for disaster.
the best thing about Hughes’ night was his ability to limit the walk, but I also believe that was aided by the free-swinging orioles line up. Hey, call me a skeptic but I call it as I see ‘em. Hughes looked no different tonight then any other night to me
i should also say Hughes’ performance was worthy of that of a 5th starter (although 5 IP isn’t ideal, but i think he coulda went out for the 6th as he had thrown only 89 pitches and that Joe wanted to ensure a victory and didn’t trust Hughes in the 6th)
Corey wrote:
Totally agree. He needs to go down and work on being more consistent within the zone. All I said was that his stuff looked very good. His location, not as much.
Corey wrote:
He certainly looked different to me, as he did to most of the people commenting at RAB and Ken Singleton, to name a few. Like I said, it was not a great performance, but his stuff was as good as I have seen in a while.
Corey wrote:
That is entirely fair. Like I’ve said in the various threads discussing this game, he should be in the minors, and his performance was not good enough to stop that from happening. But to me, it was encouraging to see good stuff after seeing his fastball be flat last time against the O’s.
i like to think we are more….sophisticated…commentators here at WW vs. RAB commentators, nothing against the RAB crew themselves, but some (read: most) of their commentators irk me…
also, i gotta be fair, I think Conie is wrong in his flip floppin as he is now advocatin Hughes to the pen. I don’t like that 1 bit
Corey wrote:
Really? There are some trolls and other assorted riff-raff who have migrated over from Lohud, but for the most part, that is an educated portion of the fan base.
Corey wrote:
Totally agree. He needs innings, and he needs to develop some consistency. That’s not going to happen in the pen.
I rarely, if ever, comment there ( i do enjoy the Rab writers), but I feel like everyone there is more out to 1-up each other and post links to google.com more then having a nice conversation, like you and I are having
I comment there frequently, but I can see how that stuff might turn you off. The regulars there are very hard on people who come to an argument ill-equipped in terms of facts, which probably keeps some people from commenting even when they have good things to say.
Corey wrote:
Agreed. I couldn’t get a good look at the location of his pitches from where I was sitting, so I was under the impression that this was a pretty good outing for him despite the two mistakes that resulted in HRs. When I watched the encore on later on TV, it was clear that his command of the FB was inconsistent. Were the O’s free-swinging or were they fooled? I’m leaning toward free-swinging, but I really don’t know. It still doesn’t change the fact that command is still an issue for him.
@ Corey:
Hmmm… Interesting.. Connie now is saying Hughes should go to the pen?.. Is that what I am understanding Corey?
Interesting turn on his part.. of Course if he did…
guys – steve will always find something wrong with hughes unless he starts really pitching well consistently. most people watching last night would consider a 1-2-3 first inning with 2 strikeouts of two of the better hitters in the AL east (jones and markakis), a scoreless second where he allows a hit and a walk, and a scoreless third where he gets out of a 1st and 3rd nobody out jam by k’s jones on a hammer buried for a swing and miss and a knee buckler to get markakis looking, with a throw ‘em out to boot, to be a “sharp” start. but when steve has developed a stance on someone, it’s difficult (though not impossible!) to get him off that stance, and in this case he’ll resort to something like pitch count to discredit another point and stay on his own stance. hughes’ overall outing ended up being very average, but his start was sharp and probably a little more than that.
yagottagotomo1 wrote:
It can, if he is used properly. He has nothing left to prove in the minors.
Raf wrote:
I hear this all the time, and while it is true, it is saying something different than saying he does not belong in the minors. He needs to work on consistency of location. He can do that in the minors.
It can, if he is used properly. He has nothing left to prove in the minors.
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i’m of the camp that he needs a change-up, and its a lot better to learn somethin like that down on the farm then in the pen…plus the kid needs to get his innings up, and when your in the pen there’s no gaurantee to that
One homer was off a hanging curve or cutter. The other was off a misplaced FB.
I would send him back to AAA to start until the All-star Break with orders to throw the FB less and at least 20 curves and 20 changeups every game, regardless of results, until he has a change that he can use to keep lefties from teeing off and a curve he can command with confidence.
After the Break, if he’s made progress with his command, I’d bring him up and move him to middle/long relief, hoping to use him about twice a week for 2 to 2+ innings an appearance, learning to command his stuff and get major league hitters out consistently with it. If the occasional early knockout happens, he and Aceves can alternate, or work the same game if necessary, to absorb extra innings so that shorter arms like Tomko, Veras, Albaladejo and Coke don’t have to.
After his appearance is over, he can go to the pen and throw sufficient additional pitches to get his “game total” up to 90. In that way, they can keep his arm “long enough” to go into the rotation if an injury pops up, and also be ready to replace Pettitte from the start of next season, if that’s what happens.
as long as Pettitte is able, I keep him on the team
as long as Pettitte is able, I keep him on the team
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FWIW, Pettitte isn’t exactly pitching great of late (5.34 ERA in his last 5 starts / 2.53 ERA in his first 3 starts).
still, big game, who aside from CC would you prefer pitching it over Pettitte?
I’m assuming that Pettitte meant it when he hinted/said that this would be his last season.
I’m also assuming that if the Yanks somehow win it all, he’ll definitely retire.
pettitte’s been sayin this might not be his ast season more recently
Corey wrote:
Whoever our 2nd best pitcher is. By the end of the season, it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s Joba.
so lets say the playoffs started today, and the yanks were in it, who do u lineup to pitch game 3? Pettitte for me
I’m a big believe in having a big game pitcher for game 3, as its a pivotal game more often than not
Corey wrote:
If the playoffs started today, I’d go CC-Joba-Burnett-Andy.
I love Andy, always have and always will. I was part of Steve’s P46 and I feel like I had something to do with his coming back (no matter how ridiculous that might sound). But he was horrid in 2nd half of last year and he’s been horrid in his last 5 starts and I’m growing a bit concerned about Pettitte overall. He’s still got a few good games left in him, I’m sure, but more often than not, I don’t think he’s going to be a particularly effective starter.
FYI – For the folks who weren’t around when Steve ran P46, this is what I’m talking about:
http://waswatching.com/2007/12/03/did-project-p46-help/
[...] as I said yesterday, the O’s stink. Now, comes the real test – the Phillies. It will be very interesting to see [...]