• Wild Thought: Taking A Holliday

    Posted by on June 4th, 2009 · Comments (14)

    Today’s wild thought is an off-the-wall trade proposal…

    …if the Oakland A’s offered the Yankees Matt Holliday, right now, for Nick Swisher, Alfredo Aceves, Dellin Betances and cash…would you make that deal, if you were Brian Cashman?

    Tough one – huh? It would be fun to see Teixeira, A-Rod and Holliday batting back-to-back-to-back in the new Yankee Stadium this summer. And, Swisher and money are no issue to give up…but, do you include the somewhat useful Aceves and the promise of Betances?

    Me? If I’m the Yankees, I make that deal and don’t look back – even with Holliday being a free agent at the end of the season and the loss of Swisher’s “chemistry” factor. How about you?

    Then again, would the A’s make such a deal? Probably not…but, hey, I did say it was a wild thought, right?

    Comments on Wild Thought: Taking A Holliday

    1. YankCrank
      June 4th, 2009 | 1:58 pm

      Very wild thought, and yes I would like the idea of Holliday hitting with our other big bats without knowing we have him for another 7-8 years.

      However, personally, I don’t see how Cashman would want to do it, nor would Beane give up Holliday for so little. Beane will want at least 4 high ceiling prospects for Holliday, and only one of them are in that current deal. Beane, despite his eternal man crush on Swish, would also want nothing to do with his salary increases the next few years.

      Cash wouldn’t do it either…if we weren’t going to give up top players/prospects for Santana, mostly because we could sign him “for free” in the offseason, why would we do the same for Holliday?

      Wild thought indeed, but intriguing.

    2. YankCrank
      June 4th, 2009 | 2:00 pm

      I said that first part wrong, i’d like having Holliday for the rest of this season instead of the next 7-8 years, much like the contract he may command this offseason.

    3. Corey
      June 4th, 2009 | 2:00 pm

      why would the A’s want this?

    4. June 4th, 2009 | 2:13 pm

      Corey wrote:

      why would the A’s want this?

      To get the great Nick Swisher back? ;-)

      Actually, it would be all about Alfredo Aceves and Dellin Betances..for the A’s…assuming that Beane would value them.

    5. copela26
      June 4th, 2009 | 3:51 pm

      Holliday 117 OPS+
      Swisher 132 OPS+

      Despite your irrational hatred for Swish he’s having a better season then Holliday so far. Holliday has yet to prove he can hit out side of coors field. His .163 ISO this year is right in line with his career mark away from coors

    6. sanair
      June 4th, 2009 | 4:21 pm

      Two thoughts:

      (1) It would have to be a significant amount of cash considering Swisher’s contract.

      (2) Is this better than getting a first round + supplemental draft pick?

    7. Evan3457
      June 4th, 2009 | 4:28 pm

      1) Swisher makes too much money.

      2) Holliday is simply not that good outside of Coors. A clear upgrade on Swisher? Yeah, sure, but not by so much.

      3) They need Aceves’ arm for the forseeable future. Moreover, a pitcher like Aceves is not what the A’s want. Yanks have holes in the pen. Aceves may well not be as effective as the league gets a book on him, but he’s one of the few effective relievers the Yanks have right now.

      Wrong pieces on both sides.

      Oh, and please stop dismissing Swisher’s tangible value just because you think his BAVG is too low and he K’s too much.

    8. Pat F
      June 4th, 2009 | 4:29 pm

      i’m not that high on holliday. career splits away from coors and the start this year are worrysome. i don’t think this deal helps either team. swish and aceves have been VERY useful pieces for us this year, but are not the kind beane would want in return. likewise, half a year of holliday doesn’t seem worth it considering the years we have left and extremely reasonable cost for swish and aceves. and that’s before you get to the ceiling of betances. and again, i don’t think the impact aceves has had this year should be underrated.

      weird deal in that i just don’t think either side is getting what they want relative to what they are giving up.

    9. Pat F
      June 4th, 2009 | 4:33 pm

      i guess a better way to put it, as evan is getting at, is that swisher and aceves are REALLY useful to us and not so useful to the A’s, because of the types of teams they are and what they are trying to accomplish this year.

    10. Pat F
      June 4th, 2009 | 4:34 pm

      *really useful to us, and not as useful to the A’s at the present moment. they are both great pieces on contending teams, but not players you are going to build around, which is what the A’s need now.

    11. June 4th, 2009 | 5:06 pm

      Coming into today’s games…

      Nick Swisher in his last 96 PA, BA/OBA/SLG: .216/351/.392
      Matt Holliday in his last 106 PA, BA/OBA/SLG: .322/.443/.471

      Night and day, boys and girls, night and day…
      and that’s absent of any Coors stuff….

    12. copela26
      June 4th, 2009 | 6:19 pm

      yay for randomly selected end points

      Still Swishers play has been better then you give him credit for and why trade for Holiday. I doesn’t fill a real need for the yankees and if they can get him without giving up prospects in the off season anyway

    13. Evan3457
      June 4th, 2009 | 7:02 pm

      Nick Swisher: last 30 PA: BA/OBA/SLG: .435/.533/.719
      Matt Holliday: last 30 PA: BA/OBA/SLG: .280/.400/.520

      Night and day, blog honcho, night and day…
      and Nick even had a good series at the Stadium this time…
      ============================================
      …and that discussion totally ignores whatever Aceves’ REAL value is, be it what it appears to be right now, or whether it falls off after the league gets a book on him…
      ============================================
      I suppose moving Holliday into Yankee Stadium is halfway-like putting him back in Coors (he’ll get the extra HR’s but not the extra BAVG).
      ==============================================
      Holliday has never drawn walks at the rate he’s been drawing them lately. Maybe Giambi has rubbed off on him a bit (in that regard only)
      ===========================================
      And more relevant than all of this, the season’s numbers:

      Holliday: .274/.367/437 with 32 K and 24 BB in 190 AB.
      Swisher: .251/.384/.536 with 50 K and 37 BB in 167 AB.

      Swisher: OPS+ of 135 or so after today’s game; Holliday OPS+ 117.

      Swisher: 33 R and 32 RBI while using 132 outs; Holliday: 25 R and 33 RBI while using 138 outs.

      OWP: Swisher .637, Holliday .566
      WPA: Here’s a win for Holliday: Holliday +0.36, Swisher -0.06;
      Clutch: Holliday: -0.26, Swisher, -0.61
      UZR Runs/150: Another win for Holliday +17.2, Swisher -0.3 (About 1/3 of season; Holliday has been about 6 runs better so far)
      WAR: Holliday 1.4, Swisher 1.2.
      =============================================

      Is Holliday better? Sure he is, and the gap will likely become larger as the season goes along. Would I include Betances. I might, just. To me, the merit of the proposed deal depends on the real value of Aceves. I don’t really know how to judge that now. Suppose Aceves throws 100 innings for the Yanks with an ERA of 3.50 (and he really pitches to that ERA). I’m not sure that those innings, plus Swisher and Betances, are worth 4 months of Holliday plus an overlong, overpriced contract. It might be worth 4 months of Holliday plus 2 very high draft picks.
      ====================
      Ahhh, no use wasting any more electrons, Beane would never make this deal anyway; it doesn’t suit his needs.

    14. Raf
      June 4th, 2009 | 7:06 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Coming into today’s games…
      Nick Swisher in his last 96 PA, BA/OBA/SLG: .216/351/.392
      Matt Holliday in his last 106 PA, BA/OBA/SLG: .322/.443/.471
      Night and day, boys and girls, night and day…
      and that’s absent of any Coors stuff….

      And on the season

      NS:.244/.380/.512
      MH:.274/.367/.437

      wOBA
      NS:.385
      MH:.357

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