WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 6/11/09
Posted by Steve L. on June 11th, 2009 · Comments (23)
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with all the hate on swish at the dish, i was wondering where’s the post on Cano? Since May 2 he’s fashioned the following line: .236/.272/.389
Corey wrote:
Jeez, has it been that bad for the past 6 weeks? I don’t get what the F the coaches get paid for…if Cano’s reverting to bad habits, why isn’t Kevin Long beating his brains in with whatever they worked on over the winter?
MJ wrote:
since overall he’s still hitting close to .300, most people give Cano a pass. But the reason he is still near .300 was cause he was as hot as the sun out of the gate. So Cano and Swish during their respective slumps, have featured a similar slash rate. Big difference being Swisher got on base more due to walks. Is it that since Cano makes contact, Steve gives him the pass? Or is it cause he’s hitting close to .300 that he gets the pass?
Big difference being Swisher got on base more due to walks. Is it that since Cano makes contact, Steve gives him the pass? Or is it cause he’s hitting close to .300 that he gets the pass?
——
You’re totally orchestrating the point that we’ve all (including you) have been making for so long in respect to Nick Swisher. Guys like Cano and Nady (free swingers) and extremely potent and productive when they’re hot, but when they’re cold, they’re utterly useless because they have no other way to get on base or keep the lineup moving. Basically, they’re only weapon is their bat.
I love Cano, but i’m just reiterating that, while Steve and others can love the “contact” hitters because they get the bat on the ball, that’s not always the best thing. As we can see here, when a contact hitter hits a slump, he’s just atrocious. But when an OBP guy hits a slump, he can still be productive and find his way on base. Those players have multiple weapons and it’s easy to see why they’re so coveted by GMs around the league.
YankCrank wrote:
i know
i don’t think railing on cano is “going against the grain” enough for steve like a swisher or a hughes to make cano one of “his guys”. while a lot of people love cano (myself included), there’s not really been a fanbase wide lovefest that could be viewed as unwarranted. any that he got back in 2006, he deserved, and steve usually doesn’t get on guys who he feels earn it. it seems to be the guys who are popular but haven’t done a lot yet (hughes) and/or have deficiencies in their game (swisher – despite the fact that you can be productive without being perfect) that become his bash guys.
totally agree with all here on free swingers vs. plate discipline. i’d take a lower overall average with plus on base skills anyday because, while you may not get the scorching hot month as much, you don’t get the crippling months as much either because they are still getting on base.
Also, as much as it pains me to say it, I think Wang should get 1 more start. His next scheduled start would be against the Nationals (IIRC), and I think it could be an excellent oppurtunity to take care of a young (and bad) team. And frankly, it would also lay down the gauntlet….if he can’t beat the nats, he truly doesn’t deserve to start anymore. I know it’s hard to want to throw him out there again, but the Nats != Red Sox, and maybe a little confidence boost against a team on pace to lose 119 games is exactly what he needs.
@ Pat F:
and what of A-Rod? Granted he hasn’t said much this season, but in the past A-Rod has been Steve’s whipping boy
Corey wrote:
I wouldn’t set hard and fast rules on this. I agree with your logic that the Nats present a low-stress opponent which should provide Wang with an opportunity to right the ship. However, I would say that Wang should only get another start if his last start showed us anything positive. For instance, in his first start back (5 days ago), his velocity was back to normal and he was getting good life on his sinker. He wasn’t completely effective but at least we saw flashes. Last night he was absolutely horrendous from what I saw. I really don’t think Wang deserves any more starts this year. I don’t know if the wheels have fallen off for good or if it’s just “one of those years” but Wang doesn’t belong on the 25-man roster right now…
@ MJ:
what would you do with him? let him sit and rot in the pen? You can’t send him to the minors without DFA’ing him and putting him on waivers. No team would let Wang pass at his price. Unless you don’t think he has a spot on the Yankees anymore, I’d say you have to give him the shot at the Nats. I still have faith in him, although…i might be the only 1 left…
And I’m sayin, short leash on the start. As soon as he’s given up 4 or 5ER u pull him. The Yanks can definitly come back on 4 or 5 runs against that Nats pitching staff. All Wang has to do is avoid Dunn and Zimmerman.
@ MJ:
If you are suggesting that he get the BP (long man) job for the rest of the season, with spot starts or injury starts, I would agree. I’d give him the Nats though, it’s only June and we’re in a competitive place in the division. If he doesn’t bounce back in that game, I’d like to see “Use” get the work in the rotation, and Ace move up from the long man spot. In any event, if Wang’s still unreliable by the break, you have to pull the plug. Ace/Bruney/Mo looks pretty decent for the second half.
@ Corey:
I agree Corey. With Hughes having some experience in the bullpen (mindset, warmup process, etc.) I see him as a much more versatile pitcher than Wang. To me Wang is a starter and little else, and we know he feels the same way. Give him the start vs. the Nats and if he can’t make it out of the 3rd inning, give Hughes the spot. I still feel Wang can right the ship, and refuse to believe a foot injury can derail such a promising career.
Corey wrote:
i agree with your logic here. but a potential problem i see is false success. wang getting results against the nats doesn’t really mean anything. maybe it builds his confidence, but maybe he goes back out and gets smoked when he faces a real team again because nothing has really changed with his stuff. to that end, i agree with MJ. we *should* have an intelligent coaching staff. they should be able to see with wang, no matter where he’s starting and who it’s against, if he’s coming around. it shouldn’t be about results. last night could have been a lot worse than it actually was based on how little stuff he had. everyone talks about velocity up, and then they forget two years ago guidry and wang’s whole thing was getting wang to take something off the ball so his sinker bit more and later. right now his sinker isn’t biting, period. it’s either in the zone getting pounded or so far down hitters aren’t even tempted to offer. good results against the nats aren’t going to change that. we (the coaches) have to see it in the stuff. give him a fake injury and back to the DL/AAA to work on it. i could be wrong, but based on last night he doesn’t look like he’s even close. posada and girardi’s reaction in their postgame pressers don’t make me think any differently.
very good point on a-rod.
On a side note, does anyone else disagree with Girardi pulling A-Rod for Pena last night in the 9th? I realize they want to take it easy on A-Rod’s hip, but he looked fine in his SB vs. the Rays. Let your $280 million player finish the game.
*i should have just said the coaches need to see it. we sounds ridiculous there as if all of us have any impact on it!
Ryan wrote:
my guess would be that the reasons include:
1) at this pt, Pena might be running better then A-Rod
2) if they yanks take the lead or tie, Pena is in for his defense since A-Rod had errored the past few games straight
@ Corey:
I think your guess is probably right on the mark (teixiera – snap!). but the move is a pretty pathetic one considering A-Rod’s contract. If the move was for the hip, I guess I can’t really argue with that seeing as I don’t want to risk losing him. I’ll give him time to get his hip right, but a late inning defensive substitution for A-Rod isn’t going to fly with me for very long.
Another thought that ran through my mind (…call me crazy but…) was Girardi protecting A-Rod from the ire of the Boston fans should he have been thrown out on an attempted steal.
Corey wrote:
Let’s be clear here. I never said that contact guys are better than BB/K guys. I said they were players that I like to see up in High Leverage situations. That’s a huge difference.
Cano is automatic out against any late inning reliever with good stuff and a clue.
@ Corey: re: Wang getting one more start.
The Nationals may be a terrible team, but that is as a result of their pitching staff more than their bats. They have a few potent bats in the line-up that would cause problems for Wang. Guzman, Nick Johnson, Zimmerman, Dunn, Dukes, Willingham. It’s certainly not the Sox line-up, but it isn’t a complete pushover for Wang.
thenewguy wrote:
like i said, watch out of dunn and zimmerman, and I have faith that Wang can handle the rest (note faith = he should be able to if he’s pitching like Wang should)
I saw a dead cat in the street today. As I drove past, I was told that Nick Swisher did it because he wasn’t driving 100% when the cat came out of no where. It was a lack of concentration and focus that caused Swisher to do it…because of that, a cat died today. To think, it could have all been avoided. Damn you Nick Swisher, damn you.
@ Corey: Ah. I was in a hurry and didn’t read everything you wrote. I would agree with you about guys other than Zimm and Dunn.