• Wild Thought: Yanks HOF Lobbyist Trio Forming?

    Posted by on July 29th, 2009 · Comments (19)

    Today’s wild thought is a two-for-one special – meaning you get two wild thoughts for the price of one. And, boy, are they wild!

    It’s pretty much a given that Joe Torre, Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera will be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, someday. And, it’s a pretty safe bet that Mo Rivera will retire before Derek Jeter – so Rivera gets in before Jeter. Unless…

    And, here’s wild thought #1: Should the Yankees, and Rivera, set it up so that Mo Rivera comes back to throw one meaningless pitch in a September game during Jeter’s last season – in order to set up a situation where Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera are on the H.O.F. ballot, for the first time, together – and therefore have a chance to go into the Hall together? Yeah, I know – that’s crazy. But, I thought of it today – and, this is supposed to be about wild thoughts…

    O.K., moving on to wild thought #2 – which is not as wild as the first one. Assume that Torre, Jeter and Rivera are in the Hall – and, as such, then have a chance to vote on players who are not elected by the baseball writers. Does this help the future chances of guys like Bernie Williams, Andy Pettitte and Jorge Posada – should these three not get elected to the Hall by the writers? Think about it. When Torre, Jeter and Rivera talk, the other Hall of Fame members will listen. And, you would have to think that Torre, Jeter and Rivera would be talking up Bernie, ‘Sado and Andy as much as possible – when the time comes, no?

    What do you think?

    Comments on Wild Thought: Yanks HOF Lobbyist Trio Forming?

    1. MJ
      July 29th, 2009 | 10:29 am

      Wild Thought #1: It’ll depend on how much longer Jeter plays. Rivera’s contract expires after 2010 and, so far, he hasn’t indicates that he plans to retire. But, let’s assume that he only signs a one-year deal and retires after 2011 and Jeter signs a five-year extension through the 2015 season. My understanding is that whether or not you actually file retirement papers, they still consider you HOF eligible after five full baseball seasons have elapsed since your last game (Rickey Henderson never filed papers, I don’t believe). Would Rivera really wait nine full seasons before making Cooperstown (3+ from 2012-2015 while waiting for Jeter, then the requisite five from 2015-2020 when Jeter is eligible)?

      Wild Thought #2: Yes, of course Torre, Jeter and Rivera will lobby for their comrades. How else do you think Phil Rizzuto, Bill Mazeroski, Red Schoendienst and other guys that probably don’t belong in Cooperstown made it?

    2. Corey
      July 29th, 2009 | 10:40 am

      i dunno about andy, i feel like his case depends more on whether any other PED guys get in…I don’t think he’s good enough to be the ice breaker.

    3. MJ
      July 29th, 2009 | 11:13 am

      Corey wrote:

      i dunno about andy, i feel like his case depends more on whether any other PED guys get in…I don’t think he’s good enough to be the ice breaker.

      I agree, I don’t think Andy belongs. But I guarantee you that his teammates will campaign for him.

    4. Pat F
      July 29th, 2009 | 11:20 am

      very interesting here stevo. #1 would be very cool (can you imagine the amount of fans – me and i’m sure many other here – that would go for that?) but it seems highly unlikely. #2 is really something to think about. i hope it happens.

    5. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      July 29th, 2009 | 11:29 am

      No way Andy belongs. Or if he does, Schilling and Mussina have to be in ahead of him. I can’t see a lot of votes for a guy who was never an ace, and it wasn’t because they had great pitchers ahead of him. Has he finished even third in any Cy Young balloting?

    6. Corey
      July 29th, 2009 | 11:40 am

      OnceIWasAYankeeFan wrote:

      Has he finished even third in any Cy Young balloting?

      2nd in 1996

    7. MJ
      July 29th, 2009 | 11:40 am

      Schilling and Mussina have to be in ahead of him. Has he finished even third in any Cy Young balloting?
      —————
      Agree, Schilling and Moose should absolutely be ahead of Pettitte. Frankly, I don’t know why we’re talking about Pettitte. He’s not a Hall of Famer, plain and simple. Schilling and Moose are more than just borderline guys to me — I think both probably belong in Cooperstown — but that’s really a debate for another day. The point is Andy isn’t Coooperstown material.

      As for the Cy Young question, yes, Andy finished second to Pat Hentgen in 1996. He’s also had three other top-5 finishes (’97, ’00, ’05).

    8. long time listener
      July 29th, 2009 | 11:44 am

      A hearty no to No. 1. Are they Yankees really going to ask the greatest pitcher they’ve ever had to wait around to get into the HOF for a gimmick? Let him go in on his own terms, and on his own.

      Re: No. 2: Of course those guys will lobby. If I had to bet, I’d say all three of them make the HOF. You can make a pretty good case for all of them, and once one of them gets in, the other two are going to get in, too. I’d bet that Posada is the one that makes it first, though Pettitte has a pretty good shot, too.

    9. Corey
      July 29th, 2009 | 11:45 am

      i personally wouldn’t put any of the players mentioned in the HOF that aren’t named Mo Rivera and Derek Jeter (Bernie is in my personal HoF as my favorite player, but he’s no hall of famer) I feel like the standards of the hall of fame are a lot lower these days, and that should be changed.

    10. MJ
      July 29th, 2009 | 12:12 pm

      You can make a pretty good case for all of them, and once one of them gets in, the other two are going to get in, too. I’d bet that Posada is the one that makes it first, though Pettitte has a pretty good shot, too.
      ———–
      How could you make a pretty good case for Andy Pettitte? A career ERA of 3.92 (and climbing) and not nearly enough K’s to make it in that way. He’ll have to win 300 games to make it in and I really can’t see him lasting long enough for another 77 wins…

    11. July 29th, 2009 | 12:55 pm

      MJ wrote:

      How could you make a pretty good case for Andy Pettitte? A career ERA of 3.92 (and climbing) and not nearly enough K’s to make it in that way. He’ll have to win 300 games to make it in and I really can’t see him lasting long enough for another 77 wins…

      FWIW, Bill James recently wrote that Pettitte will probably get in.

      And, as far as the ERA, well, let’s not forget that Andy faces A.L. East teams – sans the time he was in Houston – about 10 to 15 times a year…and those are some pretty small parks in Tampa, Baltimore, and Boston…

    12. MJ
      July 29th, 2009 | 1:29 pm

      FWIW, Bill James recently wrote that Pettitte will probably get in.

      And, as far as the ERA, well, let’s not forget that Andy faces A.L. East teams – sans the time he was in Houston – about 10 to 15 times a year…and those are some pretty small parks in Tampa, Baltimore, and Boston…
      ————–
      I’d love to read that article. Bill James is obviously good at what he does but…JEEZ…Pettitte is totally not a Hall of Famer.

      Moose spent his ENTIRE career in the AL East and had better numbers and there is a healthy debate on whether or not he belongs in Cooperstown. I can’t for the life of me understand why people would think Pettitte belongs.

    13. long time listener
      July 29th, 2009 | 1:38 pm

      How could you make a pretty good case for Andy Pettitte? A career ERA of 3.92 (and climbing) and not nearly enough K’s to make it in that way. He’ll have to win 300 games to make it in and I really can’t see him lasting long enough for another 77 wins…

      That 3.92 ERA is good for an ERA+ of 115. He’s also 90 games over .500 for his career, and no pitcher who was 100 games over .500 has been kept out of the HOF. Then there’s his post-season success (which is somewhat overrated, but will be important to the voters). I’m not 100% sure he should be in – his case would be bolsted by one more above-average, rebound year, like Mussina had last year – but you can make a case for his induction.

    14. July 29th, 2009 | 2:14 pm

      If this were the old Veteran’s Committee, which was basically fifteen (IIRC) guys in a smoke-filled back room, then Jeter, Rivera and Torre would change the game. Heck, just put a born politician like Torre in that back room, and not only do Posada, Bernie, and Pettitte get in, but everyone short of Clay Bellinger would have a shot.

      But the current Vet’s Committee–all the living Hall of Famers–isn’t like that back room group. Many of those guys don’t seem to care about voting, and some (like one Reginald Martinez Jackson) think that everyone who gets into the HOF dilutes the value of their membership. There’s no evidence in this group of the type of politicking that got the Scooter or Tony Perez elected. So I doubt the three of then make a difference.

    15. Raf
      July 29th, 2009 | 2:45 pm

      MJ wrote:

      I can’t for the life of me understand why people would think Pettitte belongs.

      4 rings and a reputation as a “big game pitcher.” Not that I necessarily agree with that, but I’d be willing to wager that will be the criteria.

    16. MJ
      July 29th, 2009 | 3:20 pm

      4 rings and a reputation as a “big game pitcher.” Not that I necessarily agree with that, but I’d be willing to wager that will be the criteria
      ——–
      Nauseating that the Hall of Fame would consider such drivel. Jack Morris was “big game” too and he’s not in. Jack Morris has a better case than Pettitte, in my opinion.

    17. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      July 29th, 2009 | 4:29 pm

      No question about it, MJ.

      And in the end, I don’t think Andy will top 30%. The Veteran’s Committee might be a toss-up but no one is getting in through them anyway, so I think you’ll see Andy in the front row of the crowd, acknowledged by Derek and Mo and perhaps, Rocket.

    18. Raf
      July 29th, 2009 | 4:34 pm

      MJ wrote:

      Nauseating that the Hall of Fame would consider such drivel.

      Yeah, it is, but what do you expect from a group of people who include those who thought that Rickey Henderson wasn’t a Hall of Famer?

    19. long time listener
      July 29th, 2009 | 5:27 pm

      I don’t think one’s mere “reputation” as a big game pitcher should qualify him for the HOF, but Pettitte has started 35 games and thrown 218 innings in the post-season. That’s an entire season, against the top competition, and he’s 14-9 with a 3.96 ERA. It’s true that he’s lucky to a certain extent (in that he’s been on teams good enough to play in that many post-season series), but certainly those numbers should count in his favor.

    Leave a reply

    You must be logged in to post a comment.