• WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 9/15/09

    Posted by on September 15th, 2009 · Comments (24)

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    Comments on WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 9/15/09

    1. MJ
      September 15th, 2009 | 9:06 am

      Dice-K comes back tonight for the first time since mid-June. Although it’s the Angels and they always crap their pants when they get within Boston city limits, here’s hoping that the Angels can excorcise their Fenway deamons and send Mr. Matsuzaka for an early shower.

    2. YankCrank
      September 15th, 2009 | 9:16 am

      Quote from Pete Abe:

      “Mark my words, the Yankees will lose a game in the postseason because of a bunt that takes them out of a potentially big inning. Brian Cashman needs to have one of his analysts explain to Joe Girardi that the odds of a team scoring a few runs goes down — not up — when you have one out instead of no outs. And it doesn’t matter where the runners are.

      Second and third and one out is not an advantage over first and second and one out. Outs are more valuable than 90 feet. Especially not in the fifth inning of a one-run game at home in a ballpark that is the easiest in the majors to hit a home run in and you have an MVP candidate at the plate. It’s not being unselfish. It’s being inefficient.”

      There have been many times this year where i’ve scratched my head over Jeter bunting early in the game, when it’s close with multiple runners on. Pete makes a very good point, considering last night was a playoff atmosphere. Anybody else see Pete’s point, or disagree with it?

    3. MJ
      September 15th, 2009 | 9:37 am

      I see Pete’s point to a certain extent. Having said that, I don’t believe in absolute rules and I don’t believe that NEVER bunting is 100% appropriate. Granted, the situations are different, but had the Yanks bunted against Curt Schilling in Game 6 of the ’04 ALCS, perhaps testing that ankle of his might’ve helped the Yanks squeeze out a run and changed the course of history.

      So, while I agree that bunting because that’s what they did in the 1960′s doesn’t make sense, I do think that it’s a skill all ballplayers should have because you just never know when you might need to catch a sleeping defense by surprise.

    4. Corey
      September 15th, 2009 | 9:39 am

      plus, you have to bunt and play small ball during the season in game situations if you expect to be able to during the playoffs.

    5. bfriley76
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:01 am

      Corey wrote:

      plus, you have to bunt and play small ball during the season in game situations if you expect to be able to during the playoffs.

      The problem though is that Girardi is often using “small ball” techniques in situations, and with players that he shouldn’t be. That’s a problem regardless of whether the game is being played in April or October.

      Nick Swisher probably shouldn’t be asked to bunt EVER. Especially when the relief pitcher he’s facing can’t find the plate (he is 3rd in the league in walks afterall).

      Jeter is hitting .330…he probably can help the team more by swinging away than by bunting, though he tends to take the matter into his own hands more often than not.

      Molina bunting to move the runner over. I can see that. Gardner bunting for a base hit, I guess. But guys that can hit like most of this lineup can, can probably benefit the team more by actually swinging the bat.

    6. MJ
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:08 am

      @ bfriley76:
      It’s a fair point about guys like Swisher and/or Jeter. I think your post is the happy medium between PeteAbe’s “Never Bunt” and accepting that the bunt can be a useful play in certain situations.

      I definitely want Gardner, Molina, Ramiro Pena to bunt when the situation calls for it.

    7. YankCrank
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:08 am

      bfriley76 wrote:

      Corey wrote:

      plus, you have to bunt and play small ball during the season in game situations if you expect to be able to during the playoffs.

      The problem though is that Girardi is often using “small ball” techniques in situations, and with players that he shouldn’t be. That’s a problem regardless of whether the game is being played in April or October.

      Nick Swisher probably shouldn’t be asked to bunt EVER. Especially when the relief pitcher he’s facing can’t find the plate (he is 3rd in the league in walks afterall).

      Jeter is hitting .330…he probably can help the team more by swinging away than by bunting, though he tends to take the matter into his own hands more often than not.

      Molina bunting to move the runner over. I can see that. Gardner bunting for a base hit, I guess. But guys that can hit like most of this lineup can, can probably benefit the team more by actually swinging the bat.

      This is more along the lines of what I was getting at. I think MJ and Corey are right that bunting is an art of the game and should be used at the appropriate time, but I feel Girardi is often throwing the bunt out there at the wrong time.

      The 5th inning of a tie game. Yankees have runners on first and second, nobody out, and Jeter who’s hitting .330 and is a legitimate MVP candidate comes to the plate. Jeter can spray the ball anywhere he wants, at any time, and even take it oppo over the wall for a home run.

      Why is he sacrificing himself there? Molina, Gardner, Hairston bunt there…not Jeter.

    8. Corey
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:32 am

      @ bfriley76:
      let’s not forget that Jeter usually collects a dozen or so hits off the bunt a year.

      The problem with the yankees becomes, who DO you bunt with? Realistically, in a playoof lineup, Molina, Hairston and Pena won’t even be in the game. What do you do? pinch hit with one of them for a bunt? Imagine the backlash Girardi would get if that didn’t pan out? Heck, even Gardner likely wont start.

      I understand your frustration about the situations in which Jeter bunts, and I agree with you, but this is what september games are for when you have a big lead…working out the kinks for the post season.

    9. bfriley76
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:40 am

      Corey wrote:

      @ bfriley76:
      The problem with the yankees becomes, who DO you bunt with? Realistically, in a playoof lineup, Molina, Hairston and Pena won’t even be in the game. What do you do? pinch hit with one of them for a bunt? Imagine the backlash Girardi would get if that didn’t pan out? Heck, even Gardner likely wont start.
      I understand your frustration about the situations in which Jeter bunts, and I agree with you, but this is what September games are for when you have a big lead…working out the kinks for the post season.

      Why bunt then? If no one in your lineup is suited for bunting, either because of their ability to hit, or their inability or inexperience, bunting for the sake of it seems even dumber.

    10. bfriley76
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:42 am

      Corey wrote:

      @ bfriley76:
      let’s not forget that Jeter usually collects a dozen or so hits off the bunt a year.

      Is that something you have stats for or is this just anecdotal. I don’t think you’re lying, but I’d be curious to see the actual numbers.

    11. Corey
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:43 am

      @ bfriley76:
      Because, in the playoffs, when 1 run makes the difference, a bunt could be the right play. For years everyone clamored that the Yankees couldn’t win cause they sat around waiting for the 3 run home run. Now they are doing something about it.

    12. Corey
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:45 am

      @ bfriley76:
      that was based on feel…to be honest I’m not sure how you would even be able to quantify it, anyone have any idea if any sites keep track of bunt hits?

    13. YankCrank
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:45 am

      Corey wrote:

      I understand your frustration about the situations in which Jeter bunts, and I agree with you, but this is what september games are for when you have a big lead…working out the kinks for the post season.

      Is that really what last night was about? A game in September, when we only had a 5 game lead over the Angels for home field advantage with 4 games left to play with them…that’s a game that’s used to “work out the kinks?”

      I would have labeled last night as a playoff-like game, that you go out to win as if today was Game 1 of the ALCS. That’s why Jeter doesn’t bunt there.

    14. Corey
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:48 am

      @ YankCrank:
      i dunno, i didn’t really think the game meant anything..I understand trying to feel good going into the postseason, but mathematically this game meant nothing. The angels aren’t catching us for best record.

    15. Corey
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:49 am

      and, to add to that.. the playoffs are a different beast. What happens in the regular season doesn’t dictate what happens in the playoffs… remember we were all preaching this when the sox were 8-0 against the yanks?

    16. YankCrank
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:51 am

      I’d also like to add that, if Jeter had gotten the bunt down and a single followed, maybe the Yankees would have won the game 3-1, all would be well, Jeter would be praised and we’d not be having this conversation. At that point, the bunt would have been seen as the right thing to do…which if it worked, how could you argue it wasn’t the right thing to do if the Yanks won?

      But the problem is it didn’t work, and we’ve seen the Yanks flub a lot of these crucial situations where a bunt is either called from the bench or decided by the hitter and it hasn’t worked. That’s why it makes me mad. Bunting is “bad,” but most Yankee hitters are just bad bunters and there are certain situations where you just shouldn’t bunt…like when your MVP candidate is at the plate, with two runners on and no outs, in your ballpark that’s the size of a kiddy pool.

    17. YankCrank
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:53 am

      Corey wrote:

      and, to add to that.. the playoffs are a different beast. What happens in the regular season doesn’t dictate what happens in the playoffs… remember we were all preaching this when the sox were 8-0 against the yanks?

      Yes, that is very true and I agree the playoffs are a different monster.

      But I think if you asked the Yankees, players or front office, if they had a chance to play 4 of 7 or 3 of 7 in Anaheim, if it got to that point in the ALCS, they’d very much like the option of 4.

    18. YankCrank
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:54 am

      YankCrank wrote:

      Bunting is “bad,”

      Sorry, I meant bunting’ ISN’T bad haha

    19. bfriley76
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:58 am

      Corey wrote:

      @ bfriley76:
      Because, in the playoffs, when 1 run makes the difference, a bunt could be the right play. For years everyone clamored that the Yankees couldn’t win cause they sat around waiting for the 3 run home run. Now they are doing something about it.

      One run makes the difference in regular season games as well. It doesn’t mean, in either case, that bunting is the right move. The situation, who the pitcher is, and who the hitter is all come into play. Asking players who can better serve the team by swinging away to bunt seems incredibly foolish to me.

    20. Corey
      September 15th, 2009 | 11:05 am

      and if Jeter, in his Jeterian way, grounds into a double play, he gets killed.

    21. Raf
      September 15th, 2009 | 11:37 am

      Corey wrote:

      and if Jeter, in his Jeterian way, grounds into a double play, he gets killed.

      I’d be willing to take my chances with a guy who gets on base nearly 4 out of 10 times. :)

    22. YankCrank
      September 15th, 2009 | 2:17 pm

      Hey Steve, does your current employer know about your blog?

      I just wondered because you put a ton of time and work into it. I wondered if they knew about it, and if they did, have you been caught working on the blog while at work when you shouldn’t?

    23. JeremyM
      September 15th, 2009 | 10:12 pm

      I believe Steve has posts that automatically show up during the day- I seem to recall a post along those lines at some point.

      Please God, no more Mitre. Make it stop.

    24. September 16th, 2009 | 12:03 am

      @ YankCrank:
      JeremyM is correct. I can “time/schedule” posts to appear when I write them. Typically, I “compose” the WaterCooler post the day before it appears and set the timer to publish the next morning.

      If I do post something from work. It’s only during a lunch break or after normal working hours, if I happen to still be in the office.

      Or, if needed, I can have someone else post something for me, during the day, because they are available (not working) when I am…if you notice, you don’t see who posts the entry during the day…that’s why I ask the “news” team to include their name, etc.

      Bottom line, work always comes first. The blog is a hobby. Work is my profession.

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