• Cashman: Joba’s Fighting For His Spot

    Posted by on September 22nd, 2009 · Comments (11)

    From Brian Cashman via Pete Caldera -

    “[Joba Chamberlian] needs to declare himself. He’s no different than anyone else. Everybody loves his tenacity. But we’re going to take the best 10 guys. There’s no assumptions there. He’s put himself in a position where the manager has to make a decision that there’s not one guy ahead of him that he needs to give the ball to. [He] might not realize it, but he’s in competition with any number of guys to take the ball.”

    Hey, they don’t call him the Teflon G.M. for nuttin’…

    Comments on Cashman: Joba’s Fighting For His Spot

    1. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      September 22nd, 2009 | 3:25 pm

      The stupidest thing done with Joba was waiting til the last two months of the season to apply the “rules” – and then change them again. The smart approach would have been to restrict his innings in April/May or even a bit into June. No more than five innings a start, or 70 pitches or something. Then you build him up and let him go at a time that you figure, if he pitches from there into October without restriction (other than being yanked for suckiness) he’ll end up close to the innings restriction you had in mind.

      Then, the Yankees would have built him up and have him going strong down the stretch. Instead they messed with him and in the process, messed him up.

      As to the whole inning restriction its interesting to ponder what has happened with Lester – he went way over his previous high in innings last year and was supposed to be a great risk for injury or a performance decline. Neither happened, and in most ways other than wins, he is a better pitcher this year than last.

      Meanwhile, this was just recently discussed on the Globe’s blog – Buchholz is headed toward a big jump in his innings, particularly if he is the number three starter and they do go deep into October. But no one seems concerned, they haven’t told him anything, and part of that is the way they handled him at Pawtucket by restricting his innings early in the year.

      I’m still agnostic about the Verducci Effect and I don’t point to the Red Sox as brilliant handlers of young pitchers. But I will say that the handling of Joba was totally ass-backwards.

    2. Corey
      September 22nd, 2009 | 4:19 pm

      OnceIWasAYankeeFan wrote:

      The smart approach would have been to restrict his innings in April/May or even a bit into June. No more than five innings a start, or 70 pitches or something.

      They couldn’t do that in April or May, if you recall Joba was one of the Yankees’ better starters back then. Don’t forget, this was a time when Wang was putting up football scores and CC, Andy and AJ were inconsistent. Plus, in April or May, the Yankees would have gotten killed for doing this because it’s not like a playoff birth was wrapped up then, like it is now.

    3. Evan3457
      September 22nd, 2009 | 4:31 pm

      Corey wrote:

      They couldn’t do that in April or May, if you recall Joba was one of the Yankees’ better starters back then. Don’t forget, this was a time when Wang was putting up football scores and CC, Andy and AJ were inconsistent. Plus, in April or May, the Yankees would have gotten killed for doing this because it’s not like a playoff birth was wrapped up then, like it is now.

      BIngo.

    4. OnceIWasAYankeeFan
      September 22nd, 2009 | 4:37 pm

      I still say it was the time to do it, and you can’t say that the first 2009 Joba Rules went into effect when a playoff spot was clinched – in August. Do you really think five inning starts would have been such a disaster in the beginning of the year? Do you think their spot in the playoffs would now be questionable, if they had done that? Or would they have won more of the games Joba has coughed up in August/September because he’s pitching better then and with no restrictions?

      Let me put it this way: Knowing everything, do you wish they had done this my way? Should they do the same thing with Hughes next year?

    5. Evan3457
      September 22nd, 2009 | 4:39 pm

      They might have completely collapsed out of the race altogether early in the year. Joba was pretty reasonably effective early in the year. Some bad games, a few good ones, quite a few up and down but basically OK ones.

    6. Corey
      September 22nd, 2009 | 4:48 pm

      OnceIWasAYankeeFan wrote:

      I still say it was the time to do it, and you can’t say that the first 2009 Joba Rules went into effect when a playoff spot was clinched – in August

      So your saying in Sugust, when the Yankees had by and far the best record in the game, was a worse time to do it then when in April and May, when your still trying to discover what kind of team it is? Don’t you remember they were ready to hang Girardi? What would he say when he starts trotting joba out there for 35 pitches while he’s getting hung in the papers daily?

      In any case, if the Yankees were still fighting tooth and nail in August like they were in April, I bet you they would have thrown his innings limit into the dumpster.

      As far as your question with Hughes, I’d like to see Hughes show he’s a capable starter first before I start worrying about his innings limit. If he pitches like he did last year in the rotation we won’t even have to think about it.

    7. Corey
      September 22nd, 2009 | 4:50 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      They might have completely collapsed out of the race altogether early in the year. Joba was pretty reasonably effective early in the year. Some bad games, a few good ones, quite a few up and down but basically OK ones.

      ah, it’s refreshing when someone talks about games they’ve seen :)

    8. butchie22
      September 22nd, 2009 | 5:23 pm

      Evan3457 wrote:

      They might have completely collapsed out of the race altogether early in the year. Joba was pretty reasonably effective early in the year. Some bad games, a few good ones, quite a few up and down but basically OK ones.

      Good show, mate. Time to show up the Red Pox nation! Good call, Corey!

    9. Raf
      September 23rd, 2009 | 10:29 am

      Hey, they don’t call him the Teflon G.M. for nuttin’…

      Not quite sure I understand. The GM tells a player to step up, and he’s a “Teflon GM?”

    10. September 23rd, 2009 | 10:43 am

      @ Raf:Some feel that it was the G.M. and his underlings, who came up with the plan/rules that messed up the pitcher, and/or, it was the G.M. and his underlings who have supported the notion that the prospect was a star…leading to his swelled head…leading to his denial problems, etc.

      And, the G.M saying now that it’s all on the pitcher suggests that the G.M feels he had no part in getting to where we are now with this pitcher.

    11. Raf
      September 23rd, 2009 | 2:05 pm

      No matter what rules are in place, no matter how Joba was handled, his job is to get batters out. It’s on the pitcher. It was always on the pitcher (which can be extended to any player in the league).

      “Swelled head” etc are projections and observations. Bad seasons happen for whatever reason, be it a young’un, or a battle tested veteran.

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