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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;09 Yanks Pitchers: 3 Studs &amp; A Cloud Dust</title>
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	<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/</link>
	<description>Holy Cow! We never take cannoli from a huckleberry.</description>
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		<title>By: Steve Lombardi</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235268</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lombardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 20:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235268</guid>
		<description>FYI, changes to this entry between was was published at 9:32 am and what was edited at 4:40 pm:

Where it read:

As you can see, the Yankees do not rank well here, in terms of team RSAA, placing 18th overall in the majors and 9th overall in the A.L. (just a tick ahead of 10th). 

it now reads:

As you can see, the Yankees do not rank well here, in terms of team RSAA, placing 17th overall in the majors and 8th overall in the A.L. (just a tick ahead of 9th). 

Where it read:

CC Sabathia, Mo Rivera and Phil Hughes combine for +52 RSAA – and, yet, as a team, the Yankees only have +3 RSAA on the season.

it now reads:

CC Sabathia, Mo Rivera and Phil Hughes combine for +58 RSAA – and, yet, as a team, the Yankees only have +16 RSAA on the season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Steve Lombardi');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235268','Steve Lombardi');" /></div><span id="co_235268"><p>FYI, changes to this entry between was was published at 9:32 am and what was edited at 4:40 pm:</p>
<p>Where it read:</p>
<p>As you can see, the Yankees do not rank well here, in terms of team RSAA, placing 18th overall in the majors and 9th overall in the A.L. (just a tick ahead of 10th). </p>
<p>it now reads:</p>
<p>As you can see, the Yankees do not rank well here, in terms of team RSAA, placing 17th overall in the majors and 8th overall in the A.L. (just a tick ahead of 9th). </p>
<p>Where it read:</p>
<p>CC Sabathia, Mo Rivera and Phil Hughes combine for +52 RSAA – and, yet, as a team, the Yankees only have +3 RSAA on the season.</p>
<p>it now reads:</p>
<p>CC Sabathia, Mo Rivera and Phil Hughes combine for +58 RSAA – and, yet, as a team, the Yankees only have +16 RSAA on the season.</p>
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		<title>By: cr1</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235260</link>
		<dc:creator>cr1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235260</guid>
		<description>Sorry to all but especially Garcia, didn&#039;t get the reply thing right, I was responding to your crack about the Yankees not bothering to show up, but I never seem to manage the reply options well... consider that I have groveled...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('cr1');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235260','cr1');" /></div><span id="co_235260"><p>Sorry to all but especially Garcia, didn&#8217;t get the reply thing right, I was responding to your crack about the Yankees not bothering to show up, but I never seem to manage the reply options well&#8230; consider that I have groveled&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cr1</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235259</link>
		<dc:creator>cr1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235259</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ Garcia&lt;/b&gt;:

Not that.  But I do still say that starting pitching and managerial decision-making are iffy areas as we stand on the threshold of the post-season.  Not catastrophes.  But iffy, as in, they represent areas of risk in which outcomes could go either way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('cr1');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235259','cr1');" /></div><span id="co_235259"><p><b>@ Garcia</b>:</p>
<p>Not that.  But I do still say that starting pitching and managerial decision-making are iffy areas as we stand on the threshold of the post-season.  Not catastrophes.  But iffy, as in, they represent areas of risk in which outcomes could go either way.</p>
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		<title>By: SFYanks</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235258</link>
		<dc:creator>SFYanks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235258</guid>
		<description>Steve,

Since you cherry-pick stats in most of your posts, why don&#039;t you cherry-pick Wang&#039;s -24 out of the picture, boosting the Yanks pitching value?  Now the staff looks a little better doesn&#039;t it?  Of course you wouldn&#039;t do it here, that would go against your &#039;Bash Cash&#039; plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('SFYanks');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235258','SFYanks');" /></div><span id="co_235258"><p>Steve,</p>
<p>Since you cherry-pick stats in most of your posts, why don&#8217;t you cherry-pick Wang&#8217;s -24 out of the picture, boosting the Yanks pitching value?  Now the staff looks a little better doesn&#8217;t it?  Of course you wouldn&#8217;t do it here, that would go against your &#8216;Bash Cash&#8217; plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan3457</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235257</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan3457</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235257</guid>
		<description>Oh, and any stat that shows Mark Melancon and Josh Towers as pitching better than Phil Coke...

...is having severe problems with small-sample size.

And Phil Coke, not matter what his ERA and RSAA say, has NOT had a negative year. He has, in fact, had a good year, with about 5 blowups ruining his ERA, and a scattering of solo HRs that have hurt the team in a few games among his 71 appearances. 

In fact, there are 58 AL relievers who&#039;ve pitched 50 innings. The Yanks have 4 of them. All four are in the top 22 in WPA (which does NOT depend on the team scoring runs for them, and making them look better than they are).

The 4 pitchers and their rankings in WPA:
Rivers, 2nd at +3.62 &quot;wins&quot;
Hughes, 11th at +2.46
Aceves, 16th at +2.04
and Coke, 22nd at +0.89

In addition, Andy Pettitte is 25th among 88 regular starters in WPA, and AJ Burnett is 31st.

Sounds like more than 3 good pitchers to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Evan3457');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235257','Evan3457');" /></div><span id="co_235257"><p>Oh, and any stat that shows Mark Melancon and Josh Towers as pitching better than Phil Coke&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;is having severe problems with small-sample size.</p>
<p>And Phil Coke, not matter what his ERA and RSAA say, has NOT had a negative year. He has, in fact, had a good year, with about 5 blowups ruining his ERA, and a scattering of solo HRs that have hurt the team in a few games among his 71 appearances. </p>
<p>In fact, there are 58 AL relievers who&#8217;ve pitched 50 innings. The Yanks have 4 of them. All four are in the top 22 in WPA (which does NOT depend on the team scoring runs for them, and making them look better than they are).</p>
<p>The 4 pitchers and their rankings in WPA:<br />
Rivers, 2nd at +3.62 &#8220;wins&#8221;<br />
Hughes, 11th at +2.46<br />
Aceves, 16th at +2.04<br />
and Coke, 22nd at +0.89</p>
<p>In addition, Andy Pettitte is 25th among 88 regular starters in WPA, and AJ Burnett is 31st.</p>
<p>Sounds like more than 3 good pitchers to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan3457</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235255</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan3457</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235255</guid>
		<description>And then there was the 2002 Angels, who led the league in ERA on the basis of their bullpen, because their starters were 4th in the league in ERA...behind the other 3 playoff teams. Just behind the Yankees, and well behind Boston and Oakland.

Oops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Evan3457');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235255','Evan3457');" /></div><span id="co_235255"><p>And then there was the 2002 Angels, who led the league in ERA on the basis of their bullpen, because their starters were 4th in the league in ERA&#8230;behind the other 3 playoff teams. Just behind the Yankees, and well behind Boston and Oakland.</p>
<p>Oops.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan3457</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235254</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan3457</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235254</guid>
		<description>Oh, BTW, last year&#039;s Phillies&#039; starters had a collective ERA of 4.23, good for 7th in the NL.

The Cubs were 1st; the Brewers were 2nd; the Dodgers were 3rd.

Congratulations to the Champion Cubs, Brewers and Dodgers.

Oops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Evan3457');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235254','Evan3457');" /></div><span id="co_235254"><p>Oh, BTW, last year&#8217;s Phillies&#8217; starters had a collective ERA of 4.23, good for 7th in the NL.</p>
<p>The Cubs were 1st; the Brewers were 2nd; the Dodgers were 3rd.</p>
<p>Congratulations to the Champion Cubs, Brewers and Dodgers.</p>
<p>Oops.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan3457</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235253</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan3457</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235253</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Does that sound like a World Champion pitching staff to you? Or, does it sound like just another typical Brian Cashman built pitching squad?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, that sorta depends on how they &lt;b&gt;actually pitch&lt;/b&gt; in the postseason, doesn&#039;t it?

Going into the 2006 playoffs, the Cards starting pitching staff was:

Chris Carpenter 15-8, 3.08
Jeff Suppan 12-7 4.17
Jason Marquis 14-16, 6.02
Jeff Weaver 5-4, 5.18
Anthony Reyes 5-8, 5.06

In addition, they had just lost their veteran closer to a season-crippling hip injury, and were forced to put an inexperienced ex-starter one year removed from major arm surgery and all of 3 career saves into the role.

They benched Marquis, and made Reyes the #4 man.

Does that sound like a World Champion pitching staff to you?

Anyone who thinks that Suppan and Weaver were stone-cold locks to pitch like aces in the post-season, stand on your heads. Suppan had two great starts vs. the Mets, a decent one vs. the Tigers and a poor one in the NLDS against the Padres. Weaver was more ridiculous. Coming into that post-season with a lifetime post-season ERA of 9.72, he made 5 good-to-outstanding starts, won 3 of them, and posted an ERA of 2.43 in nearly 30 innings.

Sometimes, &quot;stuff&quot; happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Evan3457');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235253','Evan3457');" /></div><span id="co_235253"><blockquote><p>Does that sound like a World Champion pitching staff to you? Or, does it sound like just another typical Brian Cashman built pitching squad?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, that sorta depends on how they <b>actually pitch</b> in the postseason, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>Going into the 2006 playoffs, the Cards starting pitching staff was:</p>
<p>Chris Carpenter 15-8, 3.08<br />
Jeff Suppan 12-7 4.17<br />
Jason Marquis 14-16, 6.02<br />
Jeff Weaver 5-4, 5.18<br />
Anthony Reyes 5-8, 5.06</p>
<p>In addition, they had just lost their veteran closer to a season-crippling hip injury, and were forced to put an inexperienced ex-starter one year removed from major arm surgery and all of 3 career saves into the role.</p>
<p>They benched Marquis, and made Reyes the #4 man.</p>
<p>Does that sound like a World Champion pitching staff to you?</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks that Suppan and Weaver were stone-cold locks to pitch like aces in the post-season, stand on your heads. Suppan had two great starts vs. the Mets, a decent one vs. the Tigers and a poor one in the NLDS against the Padres. Weaver was more ridiculous. Coming into that post-season with a lifetime post-season ERA of 9.72, he made 5 good-to-outstanding starts, won 3 of them, and posted an ERA of 2.43 in nearly 30 innings.</p>
<p>Sometimes, &#8220;stuff&#8221; happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235252</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235252</guid>
		<description>Ah is that vs. league avg I guess?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Corey');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235252','Corey');" /></div><span id="co_235252"><p>Ah is that vs. league avg I guess?</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://waswatching.com/2009/10/03/09-yanks-pitchers-3-studs-a-cloud-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-235250</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waswatching.com/?p=18096#comment-235250</guid>
		<description>Funny seeing the Rockies so high on the list. Anyone ever think that would happen?

In any case, I&#039;m confused as to how the numbers are gathered. What condition do you place on the query that says that Hughes has a 1.32 ERA in 80.1 innings? OR CC with a 1.04 ERA in 213.1 innings for that matter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="comment-toolbar" style="text-align: right"><input type="button" value="Reply" onclick="CF_Reply('Corey');" /><input type="button" value="Quote" onclick="CF_Quote('co_235250','Corey');" /></div><span id="co_235250"><p>Funny seeing the Rockies so high on the list. Anyone ever think that would happen?</p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;m confused as to how the numbers are gathered. What condition do you place on the query that says that Hughes has a 1.32 ERA in 80.1 innings? OR CC with a 1.04 ERA in 213.1 innings for that matter?</p>
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