• WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 10/20/09 – ALCS Game Four Edition

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    Comments on WasWatching.com Water Cooler Talk 10/20/09 – ALCS Game Four Edition

    1. October 20th, 2009 | 9:43 am

      BTW, if you want to discuss last night’s NLCS game here too, today, I’m fine with that.

      Torre+October-Zimmer= not so good, huh?

    2. October 20th, 2009 | 9:44 am

      And, let me be the 1st to say, here, today, that tonight’s game is mother-f*ckin’ HUGE for the Yankees. If they don’t win, they’re in deep shit, if you ask me…but, then again, I didn’t hear anyyone asking…. ;-)

    3. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 10:01 am

      @ Steve Lombardi:
      1) I didn’t watch the NLCS game, being totally baseball-ed out at that point. I think Torre is a grossly overrated manager but I don’t know what happened yesterday that caused them to lose. From what I saw on ESPN, it looked like Broxton just crapped the bed and that’s not something even a regular schmo like Torre can control.

      2) I agree completely. Lose this game today and the series is over, in my opinion.

    4. YankCrank
      October 20th, 2009 | 10:03 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      And, let me be the 1st to say, here, today, that tonight’s game is mother-f*ckin’ HUGE for the Yankees. If they don’t win, they’re in deep shit, if you ask me…but, then again, I didn’t hear anyyone asking….

      I’ll respectfully disagree Steve, even though it would be very tough to swallow having them even the series at the expense of our best pitcher.

      If they win tonight, than it essentially becomes a three game series with two of those three games being in the Bronx. Basically, winning the first two games in NY has afforded us a chance to recover from a hiccup or two. I think with how we’ve seen this series play out, it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for this series to go seven games and have the home team win every game.

      I’d rather the Yanks have swept the series or would much rather have them win tonight, but let’s not forget this thing plays out over seven games.

    5. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 10:16 am

      YankCrank wrote:

      If they win tonight, than it essentially becomes a three game series with two of those three games being in the Bronx.

      Which is essentially the problem with the ALDS in that a short-series situation is a coin-flip sitaution and there’s no reason for the Yanks to feel overly confident, even if they did win 103 games this year. The very reason why the ALDS sucks is because it gives the inferior team a better chance of winning. In this case, losing today gives the Angels that very chance Steve and I are worried about.

      I don’t know what the home/road record differentials are in the playoffs but my feeling is that homefield advantage is a football and basketball concept that people have tried to incorporate into baseball. Unless you can demonstrably indicate that homefield matters in baseball, I don’t think the venue matters at all.

    6. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 10:17 am

      MJ wrote:

      Unless you can demonstrably indicate that homefield matters in baseball, I don’t think the venue matters at all.

      To clarify, I’m talking about postseason history and homefield, not just a team’s regular season records at home vs. on the road.

    7. YankCrank
      October 20th, 2009 | 10:24 am

      MJ wrote:

      To clarify, I’m talking about postseason history and homefield, not just a team’s regular season records at home vs. on the road.

      I can’t speak to those numbers, but what I can speak to is that this ALCS is completely falling in line with how the Yankees and Angels played in the regular season. We’re outplaying the Angels at New York, and they’re outplaying us in Anaheim. Small sample size aside, if the Yankees can steal just one game, one game in Anaheim we’ll be in tremendous shape to move on.

    8. October 20th, 2009 | 10:47 am

      @ YankCrank:Yes, if NY loses tonight, it becomes best 2 of 3 with NY having the homefield. And, that should go in their favor. But, you have Burnett on the road in that first game, and then Pettitte at home in the second game – not they best places for them to pitch, stat-wise, this year. And, if needed, it’s CC in game 7 – albeit on 4-days rest this time. But, will the overall strain of the ALCS be catching up with him by then? The pitching match-ups do not favor the Yankees, if they lose today, after this game. Plus, you have to add the “being reminded about 2004 a thousand times” factor is they lose today as well…

    9. Raf
      October 20th, 2009 | 10:52 am

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      BTW, if you want to discuss last night’s NLCS game here too, today, I’m fine with that.
      Torre+October-Zimmer= not so good, huh?

      Well, he had his closer on the mound in the 9th with a lead…

    10. ken
      October 20th, 2009 | 1:32 pm

      “I’m not going to get into specifics of why,” pitching coach Dave Eiland said. “We just liked the matchup better, and Ace had (Kendrick) where he wanted. He just couldn’t make the pitch to put him away. And still, it was a five-hopper up the middle or a 10-hopper up the middle, but he just wasn’t able to make that one pitch to put him away.”

      Above is taken from Lohud article. If that’s really what Eiland believes then he should be gone. As I said in a prior post, managing (or pitching coaching) doesn’t win games. Players do (or don’t).

      “Just couldn’t make the pitch”. Yeesh. As if that excuses the decision????

      And I recall, it wasn’t a ten hopper. It was a line drive up the middle. Got solid wood on the ball. Robertson has been painting the corners all post season.

      Gosh that game still pisses me off.

      BTW, if we lose tonight then we are still in good shapte.

    11. October 20th, 2009 | 1:39 pm

      Well if there was one thing that i loved watching last night it was the Dodgers melting like a snow cone under the able leadership of Joe torre..

      the over-rated one went on to say that it was no big deal to be down 3-1 and they will win this.. no Joe torre coached team ever comes back in a series… except for teh “flip series”

      Torre has more time now for his appearances on commercials and Conan OBrien.. i just wonder if the Dodgers wouldnt have gone to the NLCS without Torre too.. Torre’smagic touch … where art tho

    12. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 1:49 pm

      If Eiland believes that then he’s as big an idiot as his boss.

      While on RAB earlier today, they cited another Yankee blog that tried to defend Girardi’s bullpen mismanagement yesterday with a blog post by Paul DePodesta about process.

      (As an aside, it amused me to see a blog trying to defend Girardi’s moves yesterday using this link. The DePodesta post actually would argue against Girardi’s defense).

      http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.com/2008/06/draft-review-about-process.html

      I read it and re-read it and the more I hear Girardi and Eiland talk about yesterday’s game, the more I think they have no idea that they exhibited “bad process” and are thus doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

      Whether it was a sharp line drive or a 10-hopper up the middle doesn’t change the fact that the decision to take Robertson out for Aceves was misguided on a number of levels. Perhaps the criticism that Girardi (and/or Eiland) are encountering today will lead them to reconsider their actions and understand their failure in yesterday’s game. I guess the upshot is that Aceves didn’t “succeed”, which would’ve fooled Girardi and Eiland into thinking they were right.

    13. G.I. Joey
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:01 pm

      @ MJ:

      I’m glad you brought this up b/c another one of my fears is that these guys don’t learn from this and repeat the same mistakes. Someone in the organization needs to pound it into their heads that they did not make the right move with the wrong result. It was the WRONG move.

    14. ken
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:01 pm

      srivinodh wrote:

      Well if there was one thing that i loved watching last night it was the Dodgers melting like a snow cone under the able leadership of Joe torre..

      Actually, the Dodgers as a team didn’t do too badly. They came from behind on the road in tough conditions. I wouldn’t call it melting. The closer blew it. It’s all on him.

    15. ken
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:04 pm

      Hopefully some intelligent elder statesmen within the organization will tell Girardi that it’s not completely in his hands to ruin what other are trying to accomplish. Very few managers are beyond being told what to do from higher up. Girardi is certainly not one of them.

    16. October 20th, 2009 | 2:13 pm

      ken wrote:

      srivinodh wrote:
      Well if there was one thing that i loved watching last night it was the Dodgers melting like a snow cone under the able leadership of Joe torre..
      Actually, the Dodgers as a team didn’t do too badly. They came from behind on the road in tough conditions. I wouldn’t call it melting. The closer blew it. It’s all on him.

      Oh btw, Joe Torre had a visit to Broxton on the mound too.. bet no onediscusses that…

    17. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:23 pm

      ken wrote:

      Hopefully some intelligent elder statesmen within the organization will tell Girardi that it’s not completely in his hands to ruin what other are trying to accomplish. Very few managers are beyond being told what to do from higher up. Girardi is certainly not one of them.

      Cashman seems pretty laissez-faire to me in this regard, which is both a strength and a weakness. My guess is that no one will say anything to him about it. Further, my guess is that the more it is talked about, the more defensive and entrenched Girardi will become about it.

      The only good thing about having a game today is that a victory would quell some of this conversation such that it doesn’t become a distraction to the team or the manager.

      I truly hope CC shows up and gives us every last pitch in his powerful left arm. A great performance today and he’ll be my hero forever.

    18. bluke
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:36 pm

      Check out this opinion piece about Joe Torre Overrated Torre gets exposed

    19. clintfsu813
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:49 pm

      Can anyone tell me what Kepner is referencing with this Tweet: This Rivera thing is the stupidest spitting controversy since Newman and Keith Hernandez.

      I get the Seinfeld ref., just not the part about Rivera.

    20. g1ph7
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:50 pm

      @srivinodh

      Are you not counting the 1996 series or did the first two games not count?

    21. ken
      October 20th, 2009 | 2:52 pm

      MJ wrote:

      Cashman seems pretty laissez-faire to me in this regard, which is both a strength and a weakness. My guess is that no one will say anything to him about it. Further, my guess is that the more it is talked about, the more defensive and entrenched Girardi will become about it.

      I agree about Cashman but looks can be deceiving. We don’t really know.

      But I do believe that someone in the organization will say something. He embarrassed himself in front of the whole baseball world. Perhaps The Captain will say something in a quiet, discreet manner.

    22. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 3:02 pm

      @ clintfsu813:
      I have no idea but Keith Law Tweeted something similar.

      No clue what the hell they’re talking about. It’s probably some dorky inside joke among baseball writers.

    23. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 3:05 pm

      @ clintfsu813:
      I take it back. Apparently some people thought Rivera was throwing spitters yesterday.

      http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/mlb_no_evidence_rivera_threw_spitter_KUYl75fHTsuAqmMedUNsSP

    24. clintfsu813
      October 20th, 2009 | 3:10 pm

      @ MJ:
      Thanks for the info. Just watched the video. What a waste of time media wise. Only the Yankees…only the yankees.

    25. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 3:14 pm

      @ clintfsu813:
      RLYW actually has a good link to the story:

      http://www.replacementlevel.com/index.php/RLYW/comments/yahoocom_internet_controversy_of_the_day_does_rivera_throw_a_spitter

      Frankly I much prefer this controversy because everyone can agree that it’s ridiculous and the Yanks won’t be distracted by it.

    26. October 20th, 2009 | 3:16 pm

      Mo throwing spitters? Well, that throw to A-Rod on the SAC attempt did have a lot of downward break….J/K.

      Seriously, the Angels sign stealing – with those camera guys out in the rocks – would be a better subject to look at…before Mo throwing a spitter. Besides, there’s no spit in a spitter…it’s always something else….unless the guy has the greasiest spit of all time….

    27. MJ
      October 20th, 2009 | 3:40 pm

      Steve Lombardi wrote:

      Seriously, the Angels sign stealing – with those camera guys out in the rocks – would be a better subject to look at…

      Unrelated but I was thinking about this yesterday: the Angels play in one of the dumbest ballparks around. What is the deal with that idiotic set of boulders in LF?

    28. clintfsu813
      October 20th, 2009 | 3:58 pm

      @ MJ:
      It was done by Disney after they gained ownership I think. It does seem kind of out of place for a ball park.

    29. bfriley76
      October 20th, 2009 | 4:08 pm
    30. butchie22
      October 20th, 2009 | 5:03 pm

      MJ wrote:

      Steve Lombardi wrote:
      Seriously, the Angels sign stealing – with those camera guys out in the rocks – would be a better subject to look at…
      Unrelated but I was thinking about this yesterday: the Angels play in one of the dumbest ballparks around. What is the deal with that idiotic set of boulders in LF?

      I’ve been at that Stadium, it’s pretty nice actually! Those rally monkeys are something else,though. For a SoCcal crowd, they know how to make some riotous noise unlike the Hollywood fans who are in another mellowed out world.

      Sign stealing,eh? The spitball thing was a bit much BUT this? Very interesting , some sort of investigation must be made………it’s a part of the sport however an unfortunate one.

    31. Raf
      October 20th, 2009 | 5:06 pm

      clintfsu813 wrote:

      @ MJ:
      It was done by Disney after they gained ownership I think. It does seem kind of out of place for a ball park.

      Part of the renovations done after the earthquake.

    32. Raf
      October 20th, 2009 | 5:09 pm

      From Wikipedia
      In 1996, The Walt Disney Company, a minority owner of the team since its inception (the stadium is located less than three miles (5 km) east of Disneyland and across from the Honda Center, the home venue of the then Disney-owned Mighty Ducks of Anaheim), gained enough support on the board to effectively take control of the team. Soon afterward, the Angels and the city of Anaheim agreed to a new deal that would keep the Angels in Anaheim until 2031, with an option to leave the facility after the 2016 season. As part of the deal, the stadium underwent an extensive renovation, returning the stadium to its original role as a baseball-only facility. Before the 1997 baseball season, the section behind the outfield wall was demolished. Disney briefly considered moving the Big A scoreboard to its original location, but decided against such a move, citing costs, as well as the fact that the Big A had become a Southern California landmark in its parking lot location.

      Despite the fact that much of the stadium was still a hard-hat zone, the demolition and construction being only half-completed, the Angels played their 1997 season in Anaheim. Fans were greeted by a restored view of the San Gabriel and Santa Ana Mountains, the Brea Hills, and the 57 freeway beyond the outfield.

      Work that didn’t interfere with game play continued throughout the 1997 season, with major renovations resuming in the winter of 1997. These included the installation of outfield bleacher pavilions, a video display board and an out-of-town scoreboard below the right field seats. All of the multicolored seats were replaced by green seats. The exterior of the stadium was also renovated. The concrete structure and ramps were painted a combination of green and sandstone. Much of the facade of the stadium was torn down to create a more open feeling for visitors.

      The most notable feature of the renovation, however, was a “California Spectacular” in which geysers erupt and a stream cascades down a mountainside covered with real trees, artificial rocks behind the left-center field fence, and new bullpens. Fireworks shoot out of the display at the start of games, after every Angel home run and after every Angel win (they had been shot off from a parking garage before then).

    33. Raf
      October 20th, 2009 | 5:10 pm

      I was last attended a game there in 1992

    34. Raf
      October 20th, 2009 | 5:10 pm

      strike the “was”

    35. ken
      October 20th, 2009 | 5:17 pm

      If MLB did nothing about Kenny Rodgers who was clearly putting pine tar on the ball then they aren’t touching Mo even if there was clear evidence.

    36. 77yankees
      October 20th, 2009 | 7:32 pm

      MJ wrote:

      @ clintfsu813:
      RLYW actually has a good link to the story:
      http://www.replacementlevel.com/index.php/RLYW/comments/yahoocom_internet_controversy_of_the_day_does_rivera_throw_a_spitter
      Frankly I much prefer this controversy because everyone can agree that it’s ridiculous and the Yanks won’t be distracted by it.

      If this is the best they could come up with, I guess it was either this or Derek Jeter was caught drinking milk straight out of the carton in his kitchen rumor.

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